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Newby Questions Concerning Dust Collection

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Forum topic by TopShelf posted 02-19-2013 08:28 PM 1064 views 1 time favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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TopShelf

13 posts in 698 days


02-19-2013 08:28 PM

Hi folks,
Wasn’t quite sure where to post this topic, I hope it’s ok here, if not, hopefully the moderators will move it to where it needs to be.
So, in planning out my shop; I’ve gotten to the point where I’m reading up on dust collection. And to be honest, it has scared the crap out of me. I want to set my shop up right the first time concerning all tool purchases and especially dust collection. From the poking around that I’ve done the past couple of days, it seems as though a cyclone type system is the cat’s meow, but man; a very large expense.

Now I know “what’s your health worth?”, can’t really put a price tag on something so precious. I’ve put in 1000’s and 1000’s of sq. ft. worth of drywall, suspended acoustical ceiling systems and put in an equal amount of “rock wool” and fiberglass insulation to go with them. I know all about lung irritation and want no part of it in my shop.

So, my shop will basically be a 3 car garage with 2 bays dedicated to being the wood shop (gotta leave one open for vehicle maintenance etc.). Table saw, planer, jointer, band saw, drill press amongst other goodies. I will be working solo and do not ever see the need to run more than one machine at a time.

I’ve looked at several different systems for small shops and am strongly considering the Delta 50-760 or something like the Grizzly G1029Z. The Delta flows 1200 cfm with a 1 1/2hp motor and an 11 1/2” blade, the Grizzly flows 1550 cfm with a 2hp motor and 12 3/4” blade (and is a bit less expensive). I have heard great things about the Grizzly tools, but not so much with the dust collectors.

I was thinking about then adding a trash can style separator and a better filter such as the Wynn 35A274NANO, which is good down to .5 micron. to either one of these systems. But is the extra filter really necessary? I mean, if I were in a shop that is really “closed up tight” so to say, maybe like in a basement with not much air from outside, I could totally see needing this. But it got me to thinking about my set up and more than likely I would just have the system push the filtered out right out the shop wall into the yard on the side of the shop. This way whatever is missed by whichever filter is used, doesn’t get pumped right back into the air that I’m breathing. Am I totally out in left field on this?

Thanks folks,
TS


17 replies so far

View Kreegan's profile

Kreegan

1452 posts in 895 days


#1 posted 02-19-2013 10:13 PM

Holy crap! A dust collection thread 2 hours old with no comments?!? Everyone napping?

Venting into your yard sounds like a good idea, unless you have close by neighbors, in which case you might want to do something else. I can’t really comment on any of your other plans. Dust collection is one of those religious topics I usually avoid.

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TopShelf

13 posts in 698 days


#2 posted 02-19-2013 10:51 PM

Hahaha, so this is like religion and politics? Well, one good thing about where I live is that there are no neighbors, other than squirrels, deer and coyotes.

I just don’t know how much I need to worry about how well everything is filtered since it’s going to be pumped outside anyhow. Don’t get me wrong, I’ll spend whatever I need to spend to ensure my health, just don’t know if I’ve got a bad plan being hatched in my head or not.

Thank you,
TS

View gtbuzz's profile

gtbuzz

385 posts in 1190 days


#3 posted 02-19-2013 11:24 PM

If I were you, I’d definitely vent outside. Canisters are great and all but filtering the fines can’t possibly beat just getting them out of there altogeter. Should you do that though, you’re definitely going to want to have a pre-separator though. If you vent outside, there’s no need to filter anything if you’ve got the pre-separator, but depending on how airtight your garage is you might want to open a window or something (obviously away from where you’re venting) to overcome the negative pressure.

I came very close to the Delta unit myself until I found a great deal on the Jet DC1100. There’s a wealth of information out there on how to upgrade this unit. I particularly liked the fact that due to its configuration, you could put a drum with a Thien separator directly below the motor. In your case though, you might actually be a little better suited with the Grizzly unit if you’re going to vent outside. The motor (or specifically the impeller housing) is integral to the whole unit on the 50-760, so you’d have to jury rig it a bit to vent outside. DC’s such as the Grizzly would be much easier.

I’ll also throw in one more option if you’re gonna vent outside – why not just buy the motor? I checked the Grizzly website for the DC you mention and for some reason on this particular unit, just the motor runs you $335 when the whole shebang runs you $10 less. Seems odd to me but it might be worth giving them a call if they’ve got just a motor you can buy for less.

I’m also residing in a garage workshop (albeit just half of a 2 car), and one thing that has helped with the fine coating of dust is getting an air cleaner. I just let it run for an hour or two after I’m done working.

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Dallas

3199 posts in 1236 days


#4 posted 02-19-2013 11:29 PM

It’s just my opinion but if the air in your shop is heated or cooled by the rest of the house at all you will be inviting much higher heating and cooling bills by exhausting outside, after all, the air exhausted out must be made up somehow, which means ambient outside air being brought in.

If you are going to vent outside you won’t need any filtration at all and you could even set your complete setup outside in a small shed with a chip collector box that could be emptied as needed.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

View pete57's profile

pete57

134 posts in 2159 days


#5 posted 02-19-2013 11:57 PM

I read review after review and was in the same boat. I have a 21X22 2 car garage and no room to pull anything in now. I have not built my dream shop yet, but I did get a dust collector because I got a new Powermatic tablesaw and it has to have dust collection. i went over to a couple friends shops and they both have dust collection. One has a 1-1/2 HP Grizzly and one has a Harbor Freight 2 HP. For the price and what I am doing now does not require a lot of dust collection so I went with the Harbor Freight. I used a blue plastic 55 gal. drum with a removable top. I had a drawing of how the pipe went in and ran everything through that and used the thin wall drain pipe from HD. I have used it since Christmas regular a couple times a day and only have a couple hand full of chips in the plastic bag on the collector. It works and has plenty of power for me but, I do have blast gates going to all the bigger machines it takes up 5×3 feet of space long ways on a wall.

-- Humble Wood Servant

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1262 posts in 697 days


#6 posted 02-19-2013 11:58 PM

If it was warm here I always thought of a track-vac with an electric motor. just have a lean-to to house it. empting it would be a breeze. it would have way more power than anything around. I know it sounds hillbilly. since its cold 5 months out of the year that’s not an option, especially with a wood stove. I would pass on every thing, but the 2HP unit from HF moded of course or the Clearvue without the filters. if you were venting outside you could use the blower from the HF unit and a thien separator. the rest would be spare parts. the best part is they are cheap I think under 150 with the coupon. I would hate to spend a bunch on a DC only to cannibalize the blower.

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

15464 posts in 1087 days


#7 posted 02-20-2013 12:23 AM

Part of it depends on how much you plan to process. If you’re going to build lots of big stuff then the bigger the better. If you’re doing a few arts and crafts then keep it simple. If in doubt, you always buy the biggest toy you can :-)

Anything Grizzly is usually safe.

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

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TopShelf

13 posts in 698 days


#8 posted 02-20-2013 01:37 AM

Folks,
Thanks a million for the replies. Great, great advice here.

gtbuzz, you had mentioned “why not just buy the motor?”. You’re psychic man, this was my next question: “What about not even using any type of filter at all, just a pump and a separator?” Also appreciate the heads up on the 50-760.

Dallas, heating and cooling are not really a large concern for me. Upstate NY here, never really need to worry about cooling. Shop is very well insulated. Heat is provided by a wood burner, don’t take much at all to get it so warm that you could strip down to shorts and a t-shirt with it being single digits outside. I do like the idea of possibly having the entire set up done on the outside of the shop, be a lot more quiet for sure….

Shawn, I agree, now that I am on this “venting outside” tangent, I do not want to spend a bunch on something that I’m only going to cannibalize. This gives me several more options to consider….

Thank you so much folks,
TS

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1262 posts in 697 days


#9 posted 02-20-2013 02:59 AM

if you heat with wood then venting outside is absolutely out of the question. say the first thing you do is stoke a nice fire to warm it up in the shop. sounds good right. now you fire up the planer, oh don’t forget the DC now you have negative pressure the easiest place to draw from is the flew. now you have smoke billowing through the vent on the stove at a rate of say 600 cmf. before you even think about it the shop is half full of smoke. I know this first hand. I installed an attic vent fan(36”) to vent out paint fumes. I never thought about the stove, I clicked it on and want to painting within seconds the smoke filled the shop. I had used all summer long and it never occurred to me OPPS. HF modded is the best bang for the buck, but the Clearvue is the best in it’s price range nothing even comes close. these pages can answer some of the over rated cfm figures and myths about DC.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

View Moron's profile

Moron

4724 posts in 2642 days


#10 posted 02-20-2013 03:04 AM

Have hope in knowing you will never get it right

Have faith in knowing you will continue to have hope

: ))

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Moron's profile

Moron

4724 posts in 2642 days


#11 posted 02-20-2013 03:15 AM

The more i study the movement of air or any other fluid and all their properties

The more I realize what little I know

The little I do know, suffice to say, is that “removal of dust” and its propensity to achieve perfection at ZERO microns is directly proportional to budget and the ability to write a cheque : )

Do you have a budget ?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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gfadvm

11511 posts in 1438 days


#12 posted 02-20-2013 03:23 AM

I have the Grizzly with the cannister filter on the top and a shop made chip separator (see my projects). The smartest thing I did was put it outside of my shop! No noise and any fine dust that gets through the cannister is out of my shop. Most of us don’t run our dust collectors continuously so I feel that losing heated/cooled air is overrated as a problem with having your unit outside your shop.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

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Moron

4724 posts in 2642 days


#13 posted 02-20-2013 03:52 AM

Considering not all dust collection is done near the equator perhaps geographic location is needed to correctly answer the question

I would have to agree that no matter what side the equator you are on, exterior extraction is far superior to interior injestion

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View DocSavage45's profile

DocSavage45

5353 posts in 1591 days


#14 posted 02-20-2013 04:41 AM

Where do you live? What is your budget like? Check out Stumpy Nubbs. He’s doing the same thing. Well researched, and on a dime..LOL!

Your lungs are all you have? OSHA has addressed this issue. Wish I had this site before I bought my delta. Smaller cfm and that limits what can be done?

You can build a filter for the interior with a blower motor from an old furnace. Check the heating guys. One place had a heck of a dumpsite. LOL!

Simplest thng is to wear a mask that doesn’t impair your vision.

Just bought my saw from a production cabinet shop. GRIZZLY was everywhere! big bandsaw, and cyclone dust collection outside in Minnesota! Consider an insulated dust collection room if space is an issue.

Still planning mine. LOL! Want to put dust colllection motor and bag in garden shed which I built toget snow blowers and lawn mowers out of the shop.

Lots ofseperators being built and discussed here.

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

View TopShelf's profile

TopShelf

13 posts in 698 days


#15 posted 02-21-2013 03:46 AM

Thanks for the replies folks. Shawn, maybe yourself and Moron (love that screen name) could pipe in on this since you’ve got the experience and it seems Moron has spent some time studying the finer properties of air flow: If using a wood burner….couldn’t I just open up a window on the other side of the shop to counter the negative of running the DC? If not, please don’t laugh….and perhaps Moron would be kind enough to loan me that screen name?

Doc, I’m a transplanted Southerner living in upstate NY, pretty much dead center of the state. Does Stumpy have a thread or something on here about his DC project? I’d really like to get a visual on how folks are doing this.

Thanks again folks,
TS

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