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Record Jointer Plane, Worth the Effort?

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Forum topic by PittsburghTim posted 02-17-2013 03:51 PM 1629 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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PittsburghTim

213 posts in 980 days


02-17-2013 03:51 PM

Topic tags/keywords: plane frog sharpening

I just finished tuning a Millers Falls #8 plane (Picture below) and am very pleased with the results. My next job is a Record #7 Jointer plane. Unlike the Millers Falls plane and the ealier Stanley Bailey planes that I have seen, the frog on the Record plane is not a flat casting where the frog will meet the blade.

On his video about tuning hand planes, Chris Schwarts says to avoid these types of plane, yet I have had good results from a few other Record planes that I own. I was wondering if anyone has tried filling the hollow cavities in a frog of this type with an epoxy or metal-based filler prior to flattening the frog? Opinions are welcome.

Thanks for looking.

Tim

-- She asked me, "Who are you going to please with that?" I said, "Me."


14 replies so far

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shampeon

1377 posts in 842 days


#1 posted 02-17-2013 04:11 PM

I’ve never heard of anyone doing that. I think Schwartz’s advice was more due to the typical lower quality of planes with these kinds of frogs. Just flatten the frog as normal. That Record should make a great jointer plane.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

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Benvolio

134 posts in 589 days


#2 posted 02-17-2013 06:56 PM

can you not just lap the face of the frog back??

Even if you get it half way there it will perform over half way better.

Ben

-- Ben, England.

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ShaneA

5306 posts in 1256 days


#3 posted 02-17-2013 07:03 PM

I am not sure I completely understand. You want to fill the recessed blue areas, to an even level with the mating surface of the iron? If so, no need for that. You should be able to flatten the frog (the raised mating surface) and have what looks to be a nice plane. As long as the iron and frog mate well, you should be good to go. Is that a hock iron for it?

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bandit571

6982 posts in 1341 days


#4 posted 02-17-2013 07:13 PM

I’d check the frog face, before doing anything to it, first. You may find that the frog is quite flat. Stanley went to that style of frog as well.

This is a Stanley/Victor style of a #4. Note the face of the frog. I had very little to do to flatten it. As for it in use

With a sharp iron, it works ok

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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Francisco Luna

936 posts in 2051 days


#5 posted 02-17-2013 07:51 PM

what about adding a 3/32 hardwood layer?

-- Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" Frank Lloyd Wright

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PittsburghTim

213 posts in 980 days


#6 posted 02-17-2013 07:52 PM

I was just wondering if there would be any benefit to doing this vs. just flattening/lapping the face as I have done on others. I’m not looking for extra work if there is little or no benefit. Thanks for your input. I’ll just forego the extra effort.

-- She asked me, "Who are you going to please with that?" I said, "Me."

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bandit571

6982 posts in 1341 days


#7 posted 02-17-2013 08:01 PM

You would run out of bolt to hold all the rest of the parts in place. Seems to be a fairly common frog design, though

Stanley Handyman style of frog.

One that sits on my Stanley/Bailey #5, seems to do ok

So, just lay a straight edge on your frog, to check for flatness. The recessed areas will make any flatening easy ( designed that way) by having less metal to remove.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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Don W

15045 posts in 1226 days


#8 posted 02-17-2013 08:07 PM

I’ve just flattened whats there on a lot of these. I disagree you should avoid these planes, they can work very well.

If you read through this I did one even worse than the style you have. Swartz may have been talking about the kind you see in my blog (the blue Stanleys with aluminum frogs), if that’s the case, I agree.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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PittsburghTim

213 posts in 980 days


#9 posted 02-17-2013 10:36 PM

Don, Bandit, and all. Thanks for the advice. I’m convinced there is no need to try to fill the recesses. I’ll just flatten it as I have with the other planes I have tuned up. Don, I use 80 and then 220 grit sticky paper on float glass to flatten the frog after I use the same setup to true-up the sole. I don’t quite feel confident with using a file like you do. Maybe with more experience…

Don, I have used the file to flatten the spots on which the frog rests. At least for the two spots I can reach. Do you do anything to flatten the two flat surfaces nearer the mouth where the lower part of the frog sits? I have a Record 4 1/2 plane on which these four spots were covered with paint. I filed the paint of the two upper pads, but cound’t do much with the two lower spots. I was thinking of chucking a small stone grinding wheel in my drill press to clean these up, but am hesitant to make matter worse.

Thanks,

Tim

-- She asked me, "Who are you going to please with that?" I said, "Me."

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Don W

15045 posts in 1226 days


#10 posted 02-17-2013 10:44 PM

If it needs it, you can stick some sandpaper on a piece of wood or use valve grinding compound. If the frog seats firmly thought, you don’t need to worry about it. I’ve never tuned a record, but I’ve only run into a few planes that needed anything more than making sure the paints gone where they seat.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View paratrooper34's profile

paratrooper34

760 posts in 1610 days


#11 posted 02-17-2013 11:33 PM

Tim, I have two Record jointers; #7 & #8. I bought the #8 first and tuned it up completely with the exception of flattening the sole. I flattened the frog, cleaned the mating surface on the sole, the whole nine yards. It was not long after that, through reading and practical use, I found that a jointer just does not need to be a precision tool. It is not used for finishing surfaces. All it does it get surfaces straight and flat. The sole needs to be generally flat and without twist. It needs a sharp blade (straight or cambered depending on your preference or the job it performs) and it should function as a plane should (i.e. lateral adjuster works, lever cap seats correctly, chip breaker seats correctly). After that, you’re good. I purchased the #7 about a year later and all I did to that plane is sharpen the blade and properly seat the chip breaker. That’s it. Absolutely nothing else was done to it. And it works perfectly. It has the same frog as yours. It has zero chatter and it gets edges perfectly square. That plane still has the cheesy plastic handles and a stock blade and I use it on just about every project. I have the blade sharpened straight across because I use it only for edge jointing. The #8 I use for edge jointing poorly cut edges and flattening boards.

My advice is use it before you go into lots of fine tuning. It is a jointer and they just don’t need the same level of precision as a smoother or jack. That’s my two cents.

-- Mike

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PittsburghTim

213 posts in 980 days


#12 posted 02-18-2013 12:19 AM

Don and Mike,

Thanks for the advice. I’ll post the results once it is tuned. Don, I’ve been very happy with a few Record planes that I have and I seem to be able to pick up almost new versions at a reasonable price. The #7 in the picture was picked up for $60 and the blade has never been honed, still having the factory milling marks. I also like the classic looks of the Millers Falls planes and the No. 8 that I have, once tuned, performs beautifully.

-- She asked me, "Who are you going to please with that?" I said, "Me."

View bandit571's profile (online now)

bandit571

6982 posts in 1341 days


#13 posted 02-18-2013 12:32 AM

A picture of my little #8

with the olf finish stripped off. A before?

Big difference between a Millers Falls #8, and one by Stanley

A Stanley #8c, that is.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

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sikrap

1021 posts in 2017 days


#14 posted 02-18-2013 01:22 AM

If you feel you need to make sure the mating surfaces between the frog and body mesh perfectly, I’d suggest using valve grinding compound. Just dab a little bit on the surfaces with a Q-tip and work the frog back and forth a few times. You should be aware that it is very, very easy to overdo this, so check the surfaces after every few strokes.

-- Dave, Colonie, NY

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