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The rare two part Stanley #71

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Forum topic by Benvolio posted 02-14-2013 01:03 PM 1101 views 0 times favorited 23 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Benvolio

135 posts in 675 days


02-14-2013 01:03 PM

So this arrived in the post from ebay today.

yeah.

I’ve requested a refund but does anyone know of anyway to effectively fix this?? I’m thinking the point it’s broken is quite an area of high torsal stress so CA glue or metal bond epoxy probably won’t hold it.

and spot welding a bridge would look awful and will probably take the sole out of true. Also I don’t have a welder.

any thoughts welcome.

cheers

Ben

-- Ben, England.


23 replies so far

View chrisstef's profile (online now)

chrisstef

11444 posts in 1750 days


#1 posted 02-14-2013 01:08 PM

Real sorry to hear/see that Ben. Brazing might be the only way to repair but like ya said it aint gonna look pretty.

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

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Ripthorn

795 posts in 1728 days


#2 posted 02-14-2013 01:12 PM

Without a welder, something like JB Weld is the only thing I can really think of. I hope a better idea comes along, though.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

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crank49

3502 posts in 1714 days


#3 posted 02-14-2013 01:24 PM

Please don’t use CA or JB weld.
Either of those jack-leg attempts at repair will not work and will make any future attempt at a proper repair twice as difficult.
I do professional weld and braze repair of many broken items in my jewelry repair business. And I charge twice as much when I have to clean out glue before I can start.
Sometimes it even makes repair impossible.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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dhazelton

1261 posts in 1040 days


#4 posted 02-14-2013 01:58 PM

Look at post number 5 (the video) on this page. You piece looks like aluminum and I believe this this stuff would work. You’d want to apply it on the underside (grind away some material first so you have an area to build up) where you can’t see it and no one can vouch for it’s structural integrity, but it would be simple to apply. If you can’t get a refund you don’t have a lot to lose.

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=30908

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Dallas

3167 posts in 1231 days


#5 posted 02-14-2013 02:19 PM

Like dhazelton, I have been using Alumiweld for a couple of years.
One thing to remember, you are not really welding, it’s more like brazing, but if you have a CLEAN surface to start with it is very strong.

I even attached a copper fitting to an aluminum plate with this stuff and my boss who is a metal worked just about pooped his drawers when he learned I did it with a propane torch.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

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Brandon

4145 posts in 1695 days


#6 posted 02-14-2013 02:47 PM

That was a nice example of a 71 too. Too bad. At least now you have all the parts necessary to make a wooden router plane. :-)

-- "hold fast to that which is good"

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DocBailey

399 posts in 1103 days


#7 posted 02-14-2013 02:52 PM

seriously doubt that yours is made of aluminum (though many examples exist of copies of Stanleys made in various metals by patternmakers).
But a skilled welder should be able to weld that together. The important thing to note is that those two holes alllow one to attach a board (with cutout corresponding to the existing cutout in the tool).
The purpose would typically be to increase the sole area, to bridge larger areas, etc.
In your case, the purpose would also be to strengthen the repair.

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Brett

636 posts in 1426 days


#8 posted 02-14-2013 03:16 PM

By the way, I’m pretty sure that insurance is the responsibility of the seller, not the buyer; so don’t give up if the seller refuses a refund because you didn’t pay for insurance.

-- More tools, fewer machines.

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Ripthorn

795 posts in 1728 days


#9 posted 02-14-2013 03:22 PM

crank, of course some form of welding or brazing (whichever is the right term) would be better. However, what is the cost of such a procedure? If it is on par with a new plane, would one not want to go with a new plane? I’m not trying to be confrontational, I just really don’t know. I am assuming the OP will get a refund and still have the broken plane, thus just wanting to get it in working condition. If this is not correct, then my opinion may change.

-- Brian T. - Exact science is not an exact science

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MisterInquisitive

32 posts in 840 days


#10 posted 02-14-2013 09:02 PM

Here’s what I would do. First, get a refund. If you want to fix it, take everything off the broken casting. Drill and tap holes in some scrap 1” square tube for the holes in the sole. Put some flux on the broken parts and screw the sole down on the square tube. Put the mess in an oven at 425 for half an hour. Hit the cracks with Mapp gas and put mend them with low-temp silver plumbing solder (˜475 ºF). Then throw it back in the oven and let it cool down over a couple of hours. The square tube and preheating would be to prevent warping, but you might have to lap the sole anyway, and/or use a wooden sole, which might turn out to be nicer in the long run. Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.

BTW, that’s not aluminum, it’s nickel plating on cast iron.

View Benvolio's profile

Benvolio

135 posts in 675 days


#11 posted 02-15-2013 01:35 AM

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions, guys.

the chap from ebay has been really good about it all. he’s claiming the value back from the couriers, and seeing as he’s being so reasonable about all this I’ve offered him a tenna for the blades and scrap metal. At least he’s not then out of pocket. Proof that the internet isn’t a shower of bastards and no one really deliberately goes out to make someone elses life a misery.

The plane is designed to fit fairly snugly its original box so I’m guessing the package was squeezed under something heavy in the van. I don’t think that break would have happened simply by someone lobbing it.

MisterInquisitive – that’s some enticing advice there. I’ve only just about got my head around wood working and metal working is entirely new to me so could you just clarify a few points:

metal tube if metals expand in heat, might this not just open up the crack more seeing as it gets bolted together cold? or are we talking a tiny level of magnitude? Any suggestion on which metal to use for this as I don’t have this sort of scrap laying around.

flux this, I think is a chemical that cleans off the oxidised layer of the mating surfaces ready for bonding, is this right? Does your method suggest I put this in the gap before it goes in the oven? Would this burn off under heat before the solder is applied or will it need removing first?

silver solder is this the same as the normal plumbing solder I would find at B&Q?? (that’s the uk equivolent of Home Depot). How does this stay inside the crack as opposed to running straight through when it’s melted in?

Mapp Gas presumably this is used to melt the solder into the crack? Could I use my mini-kitchen butane blow torch for the same effect?

the final bond will the final bond strength be as good as new? Or will I spend the rest of forever duct taping it back together every five years? They say with a well bonded wood glue up the bond is stronger than the original glue, is it the same with brazing metals? My only experience with solder has been with tiny copper wires.

Thanks again for all your help and encouragement, guys

Ben

-- Ben, England.

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile (online now)

Smitty_Cabinetshop

10323 posts in 1362 days


#12 posted 02-15-2013 01:53 AM

It’s not aluminum. And, if he’s willing, send it to Crank for repair. Man sounds like an authority, and that’s what you want. Barring that, I’d make a hardwood base for it. That’s not without precedent… The #71 has recessed screw holes for optional fitting of a wood sole.

-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive

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MisterInquisitive

32 posts in 840 days


#13 posted 02-15-2013 02:48 AM

If you were two glue two things together, you’d want to clamp them, so the metal tube keeps things together while the solder solidifies. Hopefully it would also keep everything on the sole on the same plane, but there are no guarantees.

You are right about the flux. If you buy plumber’s solder, it should be nearby, as well as MAPP gas or an equivalent for plumbing use. I don’t know that the joint would be as strong as the cast iron, or how long it would last, but have you ever pulled a copper pipe weld apart with your bare hands? A broken router fixed with solder probably wouldn’t be as strong as that because there’s less surface area. But it’s ruined already so if you have some stuff laying around from an old plumbing fix, it couldn’t hurt to experiment. Affixed to a wooden base afterwards to protect against dings and drops, I’m guessing it would probably hold up tolerably to be put back to work.

Every brazed plane I’ve seen looks ugly, probably because the brazing is so much hotter and the cast iron always warps, ruining it. If you hire a welder to do that, the fix might cost more than the plane; you’d be better served getting a nice new one.

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StumpyNubs

6272 posts in 1544 days


#14 posted 02-15-2013 05:45 PM

I don’t know how to repair it, but whatever you do be absolutely sure that the two halves are joined in such a way that the bed remains perfectly flat and aligned or it will be useless. I have yet to find a repaired plane that works well.

-- It's the best woodworking show since the invention of wood... New episodes at: http://www.stumpynubs.com

View rkober's profile

rkober

134 posts in 1036 days


#15 posted 02-15-2013 06:10 PM

Ben:
RickL is right. Anything else is a waste of time. Furthermore a pass with a mill to make sure it’s flat wouldn’t hurt. I think a professional repair wouldn’t look to bad. Unfortunately it would very likely exceed the cost of the plane unless you know someone that can extend a favor.

-- Ray - Spokane, WA - “Most people don’t recognize opportunity because it’s usually disguised as hard work.” - Unknown

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