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Forum topic by rockom posted 02-13-2013 07:51 PM 1420 views 0 times favorited 18 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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rockom

134 posts in 2522 days


02-13-2013 07:51 PM

Another Dust Collection Thread!!

I’ve read many many threads in recent weeks on dust collection covering purchased and homebrew solutions for single stage, two stage canister, and two stage cyclone separators. My basement shop is only about 10’ x 17’ plus space under the stairs. In that space you will also find my well tank and water softener. So, roughly 170 sq. ft. I have enough room to pull out one tool at a time so I am OK with manually hooking each one up. Table Saw, Drill Press, 13” Planer, 6” Jointer, 14” Bandsaw, Miter Saw, belt sander, ect… Both 110 and 220 are available.

I am limited to about 80” clearance under the stairwell landing or 88” if I put the collector elsewhere. Adjacent to my shop space is the furnace. Being in the basement with forced air heating I am concerned about capturing as much dust as possible. I think I’m stuck on a solution that is much larger than I need. I see myself as a full time professional maker of fine furniture however I’m actually a weekend hobbyist. Not every weekend.

I think I “need” a cyclone but the height restriction limits me to just a few on the market. I probably only require a decent single stage canister filter with a second stage separator. I guess my question is, will the cyclone do any better than a quality two stage “trash can” setup? Again, I’m thinking about the really fine dust, not the big chips.

My current solution is an under powered shop vac. I also run a Jet room air filter whenever I am making dust.
Your thoughts on this are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
-Rocko

-- -> Malta, IL -<


18 replies so far

View b2rtch's profile

b2rtch

4323 posts in 1699 days


#1 posted 02-13-2013 07:55 PM

will the cyclone do any better than a quality two stage “trash can” setup
Yes by far, for fine dust you need a 3 or 5HP Cyclone.
I just bought one this morning for this reason.

-- Bert

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crank49

3421 posts in 1622 days


#2 posted 02-13-2013 08:24 PM

Cyclone efficiency, as it relates to collecting fine dust, requires a high pressure drop; around 9”H20.
If you have a low pressure drop, like 2 to 3” H2O, across the cyclone you are not catching fine dust.

Bert, with 5hp you have the potential to generate substantial pressure drop.

Rocko, if you have a 1 1/2 to 2 hp bag type collector you will not have much power left over if you insert a high efficiency cyclone into the line. A trashcan type dropout in front of the fan is your best option. It will catch most of the bigger dust and make emptying the bag less of a hassle.

If you want to catch the really fine dust with low horsepower the best way is with a canister filter conversion that replaces the filter bag.

I firmly believe it is just as important to have a shop air filter that runs whenever you are in the shop, not just when a tool is running. This is especially true with a shop in the basement.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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b2rtch

4323 posts in 1699 days


#3 posted 02-13-2013 08:34 PM


Rocko, this is what I use today.
I have Thien separator in the trash can and a wok under the filter.
It works very well but I do not have enough SCFM ( air flow) to get the fine dust.
This is why tonight I, probably, shall buy a 5HP Clear View cyclone.
I also build a shop air cleaner about a month ago, it makes a huge difference.
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/45679

-- Bert

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Shawn Masterson

1254 posts in 599 days


#4 posted 02-13-2013 10:12 PM

DC is major when working inside a house. I under stand the room limitations but you could put it in the garage and plumb it in and out. a suction line to the DC and a return line back into the shop and put the filters in the shop. 1 so you can keep your conditioned air in the house 2 to keep the filter dry and safe, just put them along the ceiling out of the way. I recommend the Clearvue in my research it is the best bang for the buck and in a class a it’s own. I know it’s costly but exposing you family to fine wood dust is worse.
http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/cv1800-series/23-cv1800-lh-single-phase-with-filters.html
also by putting it in the garage you get the noise out of the house. If you want the truth in DC go to Bill Pentz’s website. I have spent a ton of time reading on his pages, and if you have ?’s you can e-mail him.
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
happy hunting and good luck

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rockom

134 posts in 2522 days


#5 posted 02-14-2013 02:12 AM

I wish I could get a Clear Vue but they are too tall. A garage install would solve just about all my problems however, I have not been able to figure out how. It would be nearly impossible to run the ducting without major structural changes. It has to do with the direction of the floor joists with respect to the garage. I have only about 3”~4” of clearance between the foundation and the nearest joist.

If I went with a single stage it would be setup just like Berts. It would probably be a Grizzly 2HP Canister unit. G0548Z 1700CFM @ 10”s.p. Then I would add a separator.

When it comes to a cyclone, I’ve been looking at Grizzly and Laguna. Price matters but between them, specs are what have been my focus. The Laguna 3HP Mobile Cyclone is starting to look really good.

-Rocko

-- -> Malta, IL -<

View Cole Tallerman's profile

Cole Tallerman

391 posts in 836 days


#6 posted 02-14-2013 02:57 AM

For one machine at a time with short runs a single stage dust collector with a separator or baffle should be more then enough. I would suggest a hf dust collector with wynn filter. Also the rockler dust right system for quick connections of tools.

View mbs's profile

mbs

1437 posts in 1591 days


#7 posted 02-14-2013 03:30 AM

If you are using one tool at a time and then I think you could easily get away with a single stage unit with a thein top hat and a wynn filter. You can see a pic of my setup which would fit in your space. I could have lowered mine but I wanted it as high as I could get it. The pic is towards the bottom of this link.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record … A shop can be outfitted with a good dust collection system, but in reality, almost all dust producers have poor dust collection capabilities. e.g. miter saws, skill saws, routers, sanders, drills, table saws, radial arm saws, shapers, drill presses, ... In fact, it’s easier to list the tools that do have decent built in capabilities. Some bandsaws, jointers and planers.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

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rockom

134 posts in 2522 days


#8 posted 02-14-2013 02:18 PM

mbs,

Great Shop!

-- -> Malta, IL -<

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rockom

134 posts in 2522 days


#9 posted 02-14-2013 02:22 PM

I emailed ClearVue about my low ceiling height. They confirmed the motor can extend between joists without issue. Also, they emailed me a PDF for installing with low height. They offer parts for a side by side fliter option. Combined with a shorter collection bin I would have plenty of room.

Back to the point though…the two stage canister would be sufficient.

Hmph…still not sure.

-Rocko

-- -> Malta, IL -<

View History's profile

History

405 posts in 632 days


#10 posted 02-14-2013 02:39 PM

I have a Delta 50-760, 1 1/2 hp portable dust collector that I added an onboard separator too. It’s been a great setup for my shop and very affordable. I don’t have a low ceiling issue so I still use the 1 micron felt bag that came with it. Replacing the the bag with a pleated canister filter should take care of most low ceiling issues though. If your not interested in saving a few bucks and putting something together like I did, then perhaps this may be your answer, a JDS portable cyclone.

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mbs

1437 posts in 1591 days


#11 posted 02-14-2013 04:36 PM

Rocco. I have a clearview. I think it’s a great dc. I have mine mounted outside and I don’t use filters. Filters help act as a noise baffle for the discharge. Having said that, I would not put a clearview in a basement unless I was ready to enclose it in a room with very good sound proofing. These units are very loud. My shop is on the back edge of an acre lot and the dc is mounted to the outside, back wall, (insulated) wall of my shop. Most of the noise goes behind the garage. My neighbor across the street hears the dc when hes watching tv and my insulated garage door is closed. You can find people who did some noise testing after they enclose their dc’s to get some ideas.

-- Sorry the reply is so long. I didn't have time to write a short reply.

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1254 posts in 599 days


#12 posted 02-15-2013 02:49 AM

I look at it as an investment. if you start small it may cost you more when you end up going big. if you go to Clearvue’s page there pic’s that show how people built little rooms on the back of the house to house the DC.

View crank49's profile

crank49

3421 posts in 1622 days


#13 posted 02-15-2013 03:04 AM

That modified HF collector shown in Post #3, by B2rtch is, in my opinion about the most bang you can get for the buck. That’s exactly what I would call an ideal collector for a hobbiest shop. Then you add a good air filter and I don’t thing it gets any better for the money.

In fact, if I needed more power than that, I would rather have two of those systems than one of anything else. The advantage is you can only run one 2hp motor if that is all you need. Then if you need a lot more power for a particular job or machine, just spin them both up.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

View Shawn Masterson's profile

Shawn Masterson

1254 posts in 599 days


#14 posted 02-15-2013 04:58 PM

if you go to http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm He has detailed info on the mods to make a HF DC be the best it possible can. I agree that the HF setup really is a monster for the money. In a regular shop I am sure it works great, but there is just something dust in doors that concerns me. I have always had domain over the garage so I have never had to deal with a basement shop.

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StumpyNubs

6191 posts in 1451 days


#15 posted 02-15-2013 05:07 PM

We’ve been doing a series of episodes on dust collection. We’ve been consulting with Bill Pentz and Clear Vue on the shows and we try to lay it out in a simple way. We also are building some home made solutions like a wooden cyclone, wooden duct work and an overhead air filter. You might want to check them out.

-- It's the best woodworking show since the invention of wood... New episodes at: http://www.stumpynubs.com

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