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Forum topic by DonJ posted 01-28-2013 07:47 PM 1867 views 1 time favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DonJ

238 posts in 2214 days


01-28-2013 07:47 PM

I’m making a single door with two raised panels; I’ll also be making a 15 light door. That will necessitate a vertical center mutin for the raised panel door (or whatever that piece is called) and several mutins/sashes for the divided light door. I’m thinking the weight of the doors might put too much strain on a standard stub tenon joint that is made with the typical raised panel bit sets (CMT, Freud, etc.). My thought is to place floating tenons at each of the four corners, where the stiles and rails meet, to strengthen and better stablize the doors. Does that sound like a good idea, and better yet, has anyone done this before and have any tips/advice? Thanks,

-- Don, San Antonio, TX


12 replies so far

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Rick M.

4123 posts in 1067 days


#1 posted 01-28-2013 08:16 PM

One panel will have lights or the lights will replace the panel? Or is it two doors, one with raised panels and one with lights? How big?

Edit – Sorry I was in a hurry earlier. I think if you choose the appropriate joinery for the size of the door (stubs for cabinetry, tenons for larger) you’ll be fine. I can’t see the lights adding that much weight.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1886 posts in 1180 days


#2 posted 01-28-2013 08:30 PM

I did the cabinet below with the 12 light door. I used a Freud premier R/S bit set to it. The divided light was to be 3 horizontal muntins and 2 vertical ones. I could not get the worked out (tried for 2 weeks) so with the Freud set I wound up with the 2 verticals, but the horizontal ones number 9, and each one has a stub tenon at the end. The set I used was the 99-763, but there are other sets available from other companies that do much of the same thing. I should point out that on my cabinet, the profiles of the panel door and the divided light door do not match. The radius of the round over is different….that’s was the way the original was built.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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DonJ

238 posts in 2214 days


#3 posted 01-28-2013 09:16 PM

Fred,

That’s the same corner cabinet I’m building the two doors for…lol. That was really a fun project to make. I have already purchased the Freud 99-763, 99-566 and 54-760, but can’t seem to figure out how to do the muntins. I’ve watched the YouTube videos on the ‘Premier Adjustable Rail & Stile Set’, but it doesn’t have any mention of the milling for the muntins. I then started looking around and thought maybe I also needed some of the router bit sets for their French Door Set. I hope not, as that is too much additional $$.

How long did you make your extended tenons? Any lessons learned or tips on how to measure and make this thing work our? I don’t know why I’m having such a head numb on this one.

Good looking cabinet, by the way.

-- Don, San Antonio, TX

View smiod's profile

smiod

29 posts in 635 days


#4 posted 01-29-2013 01:11 AM

Crazy question, but how did you get a square inside corner on the door raised panel insert?

-- stan, oxford, mi smiod2@aol.com Make all the finest joints but the only thing they will remember is the finish!

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paratrooper34

760 posts in 1639 days


#5 posted 01-29-2013 01:55 AM

Damn Fred, that is AWESOME! Great work!

-- Mike

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Wdwerker

333 posts in 920 days


#6 posted 01-29-2013 03:34 AM

Simod, you have to carve the inside corner! There is no machine or trick to it, just chisels and practice.

-- Fine Custom Woodwork since 1978

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DonJ

238 posts in 2214 days


#7 posted 01-29-2013 03:43 AM

The ‘help’ doc I saw on squaring the corners indicated they used 45* chisels.

-- Don, San Antonio, TX

View smiod's profile

smiod

29 posts in 635 days


#8 posted 01-29-2013 03:45 AM

Thanks Steve for the answer on that inside corner. There really shouldn’t be that much to carve out right? Just make sure you have a sharp chisel…

-- stan, oxford, mi smiod2@aol.com Make all the finest joints but the only thing they will remember is the finish!

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1886 posts in 1180 days


#9 posted 01-29-2013 12:34 PM

Stan, yep…carve it out by hand…although I just used my bench chisels, and was very careful (and nervous).

Don, I’ll try to make this as short as possible, I didn’t cut the muntins with the R/S set. I found I had a roundover bit with exactly the same profile as the R/S bit, and used it to cut the muntins (pic below the profile, which I then ripped to size). The R/S set was used for the cope cuts. The inner tenons are only 1/4” by 1/4” square. The tenons that fit into the door stiles where longer, 1/2” if I recall (I built this about a year ago). My stock was all 7/8” thick so the door frame tenons are 3/8”, and I made them 1” long using my FMT (you could also do loose tenons with a mortise pal or shop built jig). If you’re following onw of the many articles published on building it, I had errors in the one I used. In the second pic you see 2 panel door frames. The one on the left shows my first attempt following the article (Lonnie Bird). Look closely at the width of the shoulders where the curve is, they are not equal; the inside one is longer than the outside one. The door on the right is my second attempt after I redid the measurements by hand on a full scale drawing. Point is, be aware of possible errors depending on the plans/articles/whatever. The doors are by far the toughest part….sounds like your building the full height version…I did the shorter one feeling it was a little too tall for an 8’ ceiling. Hope this is of use. BTW, Roy Underhill built this cabinet and you might find his episodes of use. There are 4, all have “corner cupboard” in the title…of real interest would be the one where he builds the sash. I wish I had seen them before I built mine, they are available to view on his website.
Fred

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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DonJ

238 posts in 2214 days


#10 posted 01-29-2013 05:40 PM

Fred,

Thanks for the input. If I’m understanding what you are saying, you used your FMT for the 1” tenons on the upper and lower rails of the door frame. (I would then assume you used the FMT settings for the mortises on the Stiles.) If that is the case, how did you use the R/S Rail Bit for making the coping cuts on the end of each rail; wouldn’t the existing tenon be in the way? In regards to the upper door, did you also use extended tenons for the mutins as well, or just for the joints between the rails and stiles? Also, did you cut single glass lights, or did you make it one pane of glass?

Here’s where I am in the build…as you can see, the doors will be the last build process on my cupboard as well. I’ve been putting the door construction off, but you are giving me some desire to press on.

-- Don, San Antonio, TX

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1886 posts in 1180 days


#11 posted 01-29-2013 06:58 PM

The rails of the door were not coped, they were made the way the plans showed with the molding cut being mitered only in those corners. (I used the FMT to make the tenons and mortises on the door frame.) This hybrid construction came about because of my desire to make the muntins the way the original construction was…with 3 horizontals instead of 9. I could get that to work despite a huge effort, so I used the door frame I already had, and it didn’t need the coping…the only copes were on the muntins. That said, the premier R/S set will allow you to cut longer tenons, and then hand cut the deeper mortises you would need. That was what I did on the muntins when I made the cope cut there…on the end that went into the door frame. The door frame was molded with that same roundover bit I mentioned earlier. Your cabinet looks great, it will be a highlight in your house once finished. I hope my description above made sense, if not let me know I’ll try again. Did that pic help with they way I cut the muntins?

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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DonJ

238 posts in 2214 days


#12 posted 01-30-2013 04:31 PM

Fred, the picture did help; as well as the above. Thanks for the insight on the process. I’m heading out into the garage to make some practice cuts.

-- Don, San Antonio, TX

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