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Stain won't take

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Forum topic by lexxx07 posted 01-27-2013 12:14 AM 2323 views 1 time favorited 84 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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lexxx07

49 posts in 995 days


01-27-2013 12:14 AM

stain won’t take well getting freckles need to stop my project and re-sand a couple of things before i continue need a light brown color on birch hardwood and birch plywood


84 replies so far

View TCCcabinetmaker's profile

TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1050 days


#1 posted 01-27-2013 01:04 AM

Need more information to help. What grit did you sand to, what type/brand of stain are you using, what processes are you using prior to staining?

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

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lexxx07

49 posts in 995 days


#2 posted 01-27-2013 01:13 AM

I Sanded to 220 blew the dust off raised the grain by wiping with water and letting dry, then sanded again after and the stain job came out freckled and pale in need it to be darker. Tried to applysecond coat nothing and i folled the directions on the can to a tee. Never did learn how to stain only clear finish.

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TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1050 days


#3 posted 01-27-2013 01:25 AM

I think it’s because you used water to raise the grain, water is going to block most stains from taking and where it has dried you will get an uneven finish.

I NEVER use water to do anything other than wipe away excess glue, then I will let that dry and resand it.

I’ve had a similiar problem before with maple however, the solution was to use an aniline dye and lacquer wiping stain combo to get the desired effect.

Also, the higher the grit you sand to the less open the pores of the wood are to except stains. I’ve worked in shops that never sanded above 150 to get stain grade wood prepped, then I’ve worked in shops that went higher. The shops that went above 150 always seemed to have more issues getting the desired stain colors than the other. Just saying and I know someone will disagree, but the difference will be that I do have a production background.

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

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lexxx07

49 posts in 995 days


#4 posted 01-27-2013 01:39 AM

Should I re-sand to 120 and start over i even did some sscrap pieces that came out like crap or is it the nature of birch hardwood

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1854 days


#5 posted 01-27-2013 02:13 AM

Sand to 120 and apply the stain. Don’t worry about raising the grain. When you achieve the right darkness, seal with your first coat of finish…THEN sand lightly with 220 or more. Sand the finish, not the stain.

And don’t follow the directions on the can. Cans are stupid.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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thedude50

3525 posts in 1174 days


#6 posted 01-27-2013 03:02 AM

Mike Like I told you on the phone stay away from consumer products they will be the death of your business. Get a good quality water based stain brush it on or spray it on and then wait a few minutes and wipe off the excess with a lint free rag I buy old t shirt material scraps they work fine for this Gel stains are not the way to go my friend.

This is one of those times to regroup Get it re sanded and and apply a good name brand stain use the method I told you on the phone. Finishing is not rocket science it is really simple learn from those of us that do this every day. KISS and you will be okay. Also If this means buying online and paying for fast freight this is the price you have to pay to meet your deadline. Next time trust me and dont use consumer stains they are for homeowners who lack skills to apply a proper finish.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

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TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1050 days


#7 posted 01-27-2013 04:32 AM

Well, if by consumer we are referring to minwax, yeah, it’s not the best out there, it’s a dye stain, and if it doesn’t absorb into the wood it’s just not gonna do it. I typically use cabot, which could be considered a consumer stain, but it’s a pigment stain rather than a dye, so it leaves the pigments on the wood when dried, now a paint on finish will wipe it away, but if you are spraying like you should be doing as a business, then that’s not a problem. I also however use gemini stains as well on certain woods, like say a chestnut or darker stain on maple, because of my past experiences, that stuff is expensive, but worth it.

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

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TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1050 days


#8 posted 01-27-2013 04:34 AM

oh and to compliment what cosmicsniper said, if you are getting ring hook scratches in the finished product at 120, you need a better sander, I like my 35 dollar ryobi, it outperforms the dewalt at the same price < it has a higher rpm so it sands better faster>

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

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Purrmaster

803 posts in 789 days


#9 posted 01-27-2013 11:59 PM

Most Minwax stains are a combination of pigment and dye. On blotch prone woods they can cause some serious blotching.

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TCCcabinetmaker

925 posts in 1050 days


#10 posted 01-28-2013 12:04 AM

read teh label.

-- The mark of a good carpenter is not how few mistakes he makes, but rather how well he fixes them.

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112363 posts in 2273 days


#11 posted 01-28-2013 12:17 AM

when using stain the finer you sand the more you block stain from penetrating that’s one reason people sand end grain to 600-800 grit to stop stains from penetrating to much and having the end grain stain much darker than the rest of the wood. Another issue is using penetrating stains only get darker after one or two coats because the seal off the wood so it will not take any more grain. The specks your talking about could be what is called” push back” this happens in woods with open grain like red oak where the woods open grain stores excess stain but as it drys the extra stain is pushed back out of the open grain.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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a1Jim

112363 posts in 2273 days


#12 posted 01-28-2013 12:31 AM

Mike Since your in the business knowing about finishing is paramount to having a good looking product so I would consider a class in finishing or some DVDs Like “Charles Neil’s finishing from A-Z” or the new book he’s coming out with.
Everyone has their own opinion how to finish some work some don’t. The proof is in their finished projects. Take a look at Charles work on his web site and you will see what a difference a good finish makes. http://www.cn-woodworking.com/

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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thedude50

3525 posts in 1174 days


#13 posted 01-28-2013 02:31 AM

+1 what Jim said I learned a lot reading his finishing stuff some I use some I don’t. But I do know the products you choose will ruin a project.

Jim he is using birch it has very little open grain in my experience but I do think he is using the wrong kind of stain he is using a gel stain I have never liked them they always look bad when i use them so I avoid them. I get great results with general and some other water based stains and this is what UI recommended to my good friend Mike.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

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lexxx07

49 posts in 995 days


#14 posted 01-28-2013 02:37 AM

Well I was in the lab today abd I tried 2 brands the one on the left is rustoleum it took well the other was cabot it also took well however the cabot took better. I am waiting to get some old masters, and general finishes water based stain. Now that I have solved the color dilemma I have to deal with the blotching any advice guys ( i want to try the Charles Neil blotch control)

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lexxx07

49 posts in 995 days


#15 posted 01-28-2013 02:39 AM

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