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Waterstones VS Oil Stones VS Diamond Stones

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Forum topic by Holbs posted 01-22-2013 03:33 AM 6555 views 0 times favorited 35 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Holbs

596 posts in 780 days


01-22-2013 03:33 AM

so i’m about to venture into the world of sharpening chisels, planes, blades, scrapers, planer/jointer blades.
i look about LJ’s forum about stones (i always research before asking).
some weeks ago, i mentioned i was going to do some work at EZE LAP (i guess competitor to DMT) and while there, might score on some employee discounted items. well, that day is coming on Thursday.

what i gathered from forum posts:

oil stones: could possibly leave oily feel on items afterwards. physically or… psychologically :) can be messy as you are working with oily fluids. transmission fluid, kerosene, WD40, mixed in with mineral oil if in freezing situations. sharpens slower than water stones. using very little lubricant (as in drops) as compared to gallons of water on water stones. does not need flattening as much as water stones.

water stones: need to be flattened after some use. slide around so need a base or holding contraption. stones in a freezing temperature will crack. need to be soaked before use. splash damage onto nearby wood projects cause cursing. popular and economical.

diamond stones: rarely need flattening. lower maintenance. they wear out quickly on ferrous metals. the extra course can be used to flatten water stones. DO NOT use alcohol instead of water. can use kerosene to help cutting action more than water and no rust issues. spendier

ceramic stones out of my price range for sure.
Ezelaps are polycrystalline diamonds = cheaper and lasts almost as long as DMT
DMTs are monocrystalline diamonds = spendier but lasts longer

i’ll have to see what happens at EZE LAP later this week if i can get some good delas. oddly, amazon has the EZE LAP cheaper than EZE LAP website.
also, they have 2” and 3” height stones. i’m unsure what the practical uses of an additional inch gives.


35 replies so far

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DKV

3194 posts in 1255 days


#1 posted 01-22-2013 03:36 AM

You don’t have sandpaper on your list.

-- Have fun and laugh alot. Life can end at any moment. You old guys out there know what I mean...

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Holbs

596 posts in 780 days


#2 posted 01-22-2013 03:45 AM

i considered the scarey shop method. i do not want to constantly be changing out paper, have it wear out too fast, buying more paper, etc

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thedude50

3532 posts in 1228 days


#3 posted 01-22-2013 03:53 AM

You are full of ideas that are not exactly correct I would love to fill you in on all of them but here is the low down If you go with oil stones you will work about three times as long to get an edge. Diamons are nice but they are also expensive. Sand Paper works just fine but is penny wise and dollar foolish. And then there is water stones the cheep ones have to be soaked for long periods before use. However the good stones Shapton And Naniwa do not have to be soaked they work well. they work fast and they are cost effective some stones require constant flatning while others are harder and dish less quickly My personal choice in stones is Naniwa I use a 400 1000 3000 10000 stone. I use the Chosera model and find them to be the best stones on the market today. buy what you will and after buying several systems you will find one you like I have found mine.

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View Richard's profile

Richard

400 posts in 1442 days


#4 posted 01-22-2013 03:57 AM

Sandpaper is a good way to start with a minimum investment. If you do much sharpening, it will quickly out pace the cost of just about any other method.

My the time I got to the point where I couldn’t justify the expense of sandpaper anymore I was ready to graduate to water stones. And I am thrilled with the results I get.

-- "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

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Holbs

596 posts in 780 days


#5 posted 01-22-2013 03:58 AM

dude50… i was going to go the water stone route for the reasons you mentioned above.
i bought up diamond stones only because i know the facility manager and office manager at Eze Lap (i never knew they did sharpening stones for back then i was not into wood working). IF there is a great deal to be had (such as buying a set of diamond stones at the price of a set of water stones), i want to go into it with pro’s / con’s.

i’ve done the same with the R-Max company (makes the 4” 4’x8’ foiled sheets R-30 of insulation). price at home depot is $80 a sheet. at the local factory, i can get it for $20 if they have minor defects (minor cosmetic scratches that do not end up on retail floors).

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Richard

400 posts in 1442 days


#6 posted 01-22-2013 03:59 AM

And to second what thedude said, I bought a Naniwa 12000 as my finish stone and I was amazed at how fast it cuts for that high of a grit.

-- "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain

View waho6o9's profile

waho6o9

5293 posts in 1327 days


#7 posted 01-22-2013 04:04 AM

Some use a combo of DMT’s and water stones. Getting a wicked sharp
edge with a Naniwa stone after using diamond stones is a great system as well.

Remember, push the chisel away from you, cause when you get a surgical edge, and
you will, you’ll stab yourself once, and that’s all it takes.

I was shocked how fast and far that chisel went into my finger.

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

5191 posts in 1043 days


#8 posted 01-22-2013 04:06 AM

You also don’t have to stick with the same thing start to finish. I use diamond stones up to 1200, and then finish on a waterstone for a good polish. If you find a good deal on decent diamond stones (especially if they’re close in price to waterstones) I wouldn’t say that is a bad option. I also use my most coarse diamond stone to flatten my waterstone.

I guess waho snuck in front of me and said more or less what I was typing

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN -- Stanley #45 Evangelist - www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods

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waho6o9

5293 posts in 1327 days


#9 posted 01-22-2013 04:10 AM

Probably cause I learned some of that from you Mos.

Mos shortens the learning curve as do most LJers!

View Douglas's profile

Douglas

313 posts in 1311 days


#10 posted 01-22-2013 04:25 AM

I started with sandpaper, tried a Work Sharp 3000, and water stones. I settled on oil stones, with a course diamond plate to flatten them. The reason I went oil over water is that the water stones are too sloppy, with all the slurry and soaking. With oil stones I like that the process leaves some oil around to protect the tools from… water, which is all over when doing water stones. The speed of sharpening isn’t much of an issue vs water; how many more seconds is 30 strokes vs 10 when re-honing a micro bevel? Unless I’m sharpening every tool in the shop, thats no biggie. I do still use the Work Sharp 3000 for removing a lot of material or on a few tools that don’t sit we’ll in my honing giude.

But the advice that will come up is; pick a system you like, learn it well, and use it. They all work if you learn them.

-- Douglas in Chicago - http://dcwwoodworks.com

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Holbs

596 posts in 780 days


#11 posted 01-22-2013 04:41 AM

if nothing catches my interest down at Eze Lap, i’ll be book that was linked somewhere here in the forums about sharpening systems.
i figured, coursing through a couple hundred posts about varying ways, best ways, do’s / dont’s of sharpening forum posts would help me. if anything, it gets more confusing :)

just like buying my first jointer… i’ll probably just jump right into it and figure it out as i go

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3532 posts in 1228 days


#12 posted 01-22-2013 06:07 AM

Like I said there is no soaking if you buy the better stones Like the Naniwa

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View Mosquito's profile

Mosquito

5191 posts in 1043 days


#13 posted 01-22-2013 06:18 AM

I also don’t soak my King 6000 grit waterstone, just spray and use. It’s a pretty cheap but still decent waterstone, as long as you keep it flat. I plan to get a better stone like a shapton or naniwa eventually, but for now I am content with my king.

Ultimately, don’t be afraid to try different things. You never know what you’ll end up liking most.

-- Mos - Twin Cities, MN -- Stanley #45 Evangelist - www.youtube.com/MosquitoMods

View Francisco Luna's profile

Francisco Luna

936 posts in 2144 days


#14 posted 01-22-2013 07:20 AM

Sticking films on a hard and flat surface is another clean, affordable, effective and quick method. It could be on a lapping certified granite chunk, a 1/2 inch thick glass plate or a very hard and flat surface. I keep several grits of “films” attatched to 3/4 MDF pieces at the side of my bench, and with the help of a good jig, I can razor sharp any blade in minutes. I’m a cabinetmaker for a High End, Architectural Woodwork shop in Naples Fl, and I rely everyday on several cutting edge tools, like planes and chisels.

-- Nature is my manifestation of God. I go to nature every day for inspiration in the day's work. I follow in building the principles which nature has used in its domain" Frank Lloyd Wright

View lwllms's profile

lwllms

549 posts in 2032 days


#15 posted 01-23-2013 02:20 AM

Holbs,
I don’t really care which sharpening method you decide on but I’d like to give an opposing view to something posted here. I’m pretty sure we make, heat treat and sharpen more plane irons than anyone else on this forum. Flattening and sharpening represent a portion of the labor in what we make. In an effort to keep labor costs down we’ve tried about everything out there. The fastest and most efficient method we’ve found is oil stones. We use mostly fine India and translucent hard Arkansas stones dressed by 220 grit DMT diamond plates and we use these for their speed. In some ways they can even be almost too aggressive. Like other tools, you have to know what you’re trying to do and why to get things done quickly and easily.

I’m reluctant to post this and kind of cringe at the thought but here goes. Too bad I did this so quickly Megan missed the most difficult part and the control method but this gives you an idea:
http://www.popularwoodworking.com/techniques/how-larry-williams-hones-a-chisel-%E2%80%93-dont-blink

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