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motor amps / hp question???

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Forum topic by Jerry posted 563 days ago 697 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jerry

2163 posts in 2145 days


563 days ago

OK, so we have 2 powermatic 3 hp shapers, and 2 Grizzly 3 hp shapers. I have been running my panel cutter on my Grizzly, the newer Grizzly we own. Our older Grizzly runs the stick, our Powermatics run the cope and door lip.

So we are building 77 Mesquite doors. We ran 30+ panels on our Grizzly today and it really struggled, more than in the past. Yes, Mesquite is hard, and I will also say my cutter is slightly sharper than a butter knife :). Not really, but point is the cutter is not extremely sharp. When the cutter was brand new I could raise panels in walnut in one single pass. We use 5/8” panels.

So I decided to look at comparison between the PM and Grizzly shapers. I quickly noticed the PM motors are almost twice as large in diameter as what the motors are inside the Grizzly shapers. I have looked and although they are all 3 hp motors, the Leeson motors inside the powermatics state they are 16.5 amps, whereas the Grizzly motors are stated to be 12 amps.

This leads me to believe our powermatic shapers are 25% stronger than the Grizzly shapers. Am I correct in this thinking.

Tomorrow I am taking my panel cutter to get it sharpened, then I plan to install it on the powermatic shaper.

Any information about my observations is welcome.

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net


12 replies so far

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1940 posts in 875 days


#1 posted 563 days ago

Try this. Plug your volts and amps into the “Calculate Horrsepower”

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/electrical-motor-calculator-d_832.html

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#2 posted 563 days ago

You got it pretty well figured out Jerry. Especially the part about a sharp cutter ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2163 posts in 2145 days


#3 posted 563 days ago

kdc68, the web site is cool, it appears the PM shapers are closer to 4 hp. The Grizzly shapers are closer to 3 hp.

TopamaxSurvivor, I do think I am on the right track… In fact, one shop danger is running dull knives / blades. Plus it runs the motors harder.

Thanks guys.

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1940 posts in 875 days


#4 posted 563 days ago

Jerry – Thanks. I found the web site when I was finding the “true” horsepower of my 6.5 hp shop vac. At 6.5hp rating I’d have to be running the vac minimum 30 amps at 220 volt. Funny how they claim “peak” horsepower as actual horsepower.

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2163 posts in 2145 days


#5 posted 563 days ago

Oh yeah, shop vacs are some of the worst offenders with that stuff. I have a 5 hp ridgid shop vac. Yeah right! My shop vac is no way 5 hp. Our Delta Cyclone has a 5 hp Leeson and no way are they in the same playing field :)

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

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TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#6 posted 563 days ago

kdc68, What is the actual voltage and amps for your “6.5” hp shop vac?

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View MNgary's profile

MNgary

235 posts in 1015 days


#7 posted 563 days ago

In theory one can convert amperage to horsepower. And even in general usage one can state X amperage motor will probably produce Y horsepower. But not every horse in the coral can lift 3 horse thieves with a noose around their necks a foot off the ground in a second. Especially when you consider if the tree’s branch has either no bark, smooth bark, or a coarse bark. And worse, are we talking three horse thieves hoisted 1 foot by a horse or 12 lifted by 4 horses 4 feet in four seconds.

Add to that the puffery of sales literature and I’m convinced we’re comparing apples to prunes.

In a perfect world amps converts to horsepower – talking energy, but only energy. In a machine not all energy is solely converted to another label. Some is converted to heat (because of friction, inefficiecy of material used for motor windings, friction coefficient of a dull vs sharp cutter, and lots of other stuff) and not available for lifting the horse thieves.

I mean, I mean let’s quit thinking amperage determines power delivered at the end process and it will remain consistent over time. Especially when we don’t know if the manufacturer is talking about the first foot off the ground or the tenth foot.

I’ll now step off my soapbox having ineloquently shared my less than two cents worth of knowledge.

-- I dream of the world where a duck can cross the road and no one asks why.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#8 posted 563 days ago

Now that they are all lying about HP, about all that is left for the layman to use for comparison is FLA (full load amps) on the name plate.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View kdc68's profile

kdc68

1940 posts in 875 days


#9 posted 562 days ago

TopamaxSurvivor – 11amps @ 120volts which according to the calculator is about 1hp.

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

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TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#10 posted 562 days ago

kdc68, That is about right. Long way from the claimed 6.5 hp, eh? ;-))

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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kdc68

1940 posts in 875 days


#11 posted 562 days ago

TopamaxSurvivor – yeah….1hp with a clean filter maybe….1/2 hp with slightly used filter

-- Measure "at least" twice and cut once

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TopamaxSurvivor

14589 posts in 2274 days


#12 posted 562 days ago

;-)) Well, a real 6.5 hp motor would draw about 70 amps on 120 volts. It would probably suck the hose you are using inside out!!

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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