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Forum topic by Ant posted 12-31-2012 09:39 PM 1971 views 0 times favorited 63 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ant

27 posts in 710 days


12-31-2012 09:39 PM

OK for those of you that remember I had posted a question regarding Grizzly Jointers a little ways back. I really appreciate the time, thought, and help you gave….... But new problem …. That’s what we’ll call it anyway

I am new to woodworking and am in the process of putting together my first woodshop in a 25×20ish garage. Originally I was going to purchase a 6 Inch jointer but after reading LJ’s decided maybe an 8 Inch Jointer would be a better Option. I then decided maybe a 12” Jointer would be the way to go but have been waiting for approval from my Banker (The Mrs)

Now she has decided to give me a budget LOL She’s funny like that

I was told I can spend 6 Grand and not a penny more…...... Hmmm I may be able to squeeze a little more out of her since it’s my money to begin with…... Don’t tell her I said that though : )

I am looking for LJ’s experiences with woodworking and machines AGAIN.

I have a 10” Professional Craftsman Cabinet / Hybrid saw that I will be upgrading to a Cabinet SawStop in the upcoming year or two > That is not part of this budget.

As far as what I want to do or build > Assume Everything and anything : ) That’s how I want to role baby!! I want to build the worst crap out of wood with the best equipment I can afford!! And that’s probably how it’s gonna be for awhile.

Other than the Table saw

I am really stuck on the Jointer, Drum Sander, and Bandsaw options

I was going to get the Grizzly G0490X with spiral head mainly because I like the idea of the Spiral Heads, Parrallelogram and the 8”. But in my last post I was advised that you can’t run an 8” board through this planer without some modification.

So I am now thinking of the Grizzly GO634XP because it’s a 12” Jointer and has a 12” Planer also built in. At least I get the Two for One and Spiral cutheads for both tasks. It looks like the fence is made of Aluminum although I am not sure. But do I REALLY NEED a 12” Jointer?

Does anyone have this Jointer / Planer Combo and if so what are the issues regarding it’s performance with both tasks? Seems to me every time you gain something (Like 2 in 1) You lose something. Do to my lack of knowledge of the subject I don’t have any experiences to draw from. If you have this machine IYHO what would you rather have or does it do everything you want it to?

Next on the list is a Bandsaw. I want to be able to Resaw lumber. I am planning on building a Solar heated kiln station this summer.

I am considering the Grizzly G0514X 19” 3 HP Extreme Series Bandsaw. Is 3 HP enough? Does anyone ever use the Brake on a bandsaw? I’m not sure if the upgrade to 5HP is needed or not. If so the G0531B seems like a nice option.

Last is a Drum Sander – I would like to get a WoodMaster but if I do that I am gonna have to Reduce the price on the Jointer and Bandsaw. Since those two machines and my Table saw will be the biggest workhorses of the process I really hate to NOT SPLURGE on those two machines.

Seems that every time I read a review on Drum Sanders the same Belt Tracking issue comes up. Makes no sense why manufacturers can design a belt system with a chain on both sides of the belt and gears on the rollers to keep tracking “On Track” So when it comes to the drum sander I would love the option of an open ended 3hp design like the Jet Pro Drum Sander 3HP 22-44. Any thoughts on the good the bad and the ugly on Drum Sanders?

Looks like I’m already over budget and gonna have to sacrifice somewhere or the wife is gonna have to extend my budget > And I doubt she budges and inch or a dollar…..... She just doesn’t get it…... When I die it’s ALL HERS LOL

I am dragging my feet on ordering anything because I am trying not to make the mistake that many make…. Buy something then realize it wasn’t big enough or good enough….... Sell at a loss and then buy something better…..
I want to do this once and keep these machines for a lifetime or until something better comes along : ) That’s what my wife said when we got married. 16 years later she’s still looking LOL

Any thoughts / help / direction / guidance / is greatly appreciated!!!!

Spend my money wisely because the old ball and chain aint gonna be happy if I have to sell it for an upgrade

Seriously though thanks in advance

Ant

-- Ant


63 replies so far

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2152 days


#1 posted 12-31-2012 09:53 PM

I wish I had your problem, not. I would however upgrade and or purchase the major tools in the shop first and then whats left. You are already looking at a Sawstop, so thats covered. As for the jointer do you really need the 12” capacity? I know they are nice to have but how often do you have rough lumber over 8” wide? If you go with the larger jointer now you will need to look at planers with a minimum of 13” capacity. Do you have a planer that will handle 13”? I think I wold stay away from the combo machines, but that is my personal preference. I would much rather have separate dedicated machines. As for the bandsaw, 3hp should be fine with the right blade. What is the resaw capacity of the Grizzly? Is it 12” or greater? If not, then why get a 12” jointer? Kinda a viscous circle huh?

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View Ant's profile

Ant

27 posts in 710 days


#2 posted 12-31-2012 10:05 PM

The Throat Capacity of both of the Bandsaws I mentioned have a CAPACITY > 14”

I do have a Delta 12” Planer but it’s an old one I picked up somewhere a long time ago to plane down some 2×4’s… Long story.

My thought was both my choices of Resaw Bandsaws is > 19” I think
The Jointer / Planer at 12” leaves me some extra room on the Bandsaw… Not that it’s needed I guess.. GOOD Thought!! Although If I Resaw at 14 -19” I can then run it through the table saw to get rid of bark etc leaving 12” boards for the jointer / planer

So the 12” Jointer makes sense given the Bandsaw is capable of a larger capacity.

Right?

Well that was my thought process anyway

-- Ant

View Don W's profile

Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#3 posted 12-31-2012 10:06 PM

So, my first question would be, “is this a hobby, or are you going into business”

Why the drum sander? I’ve lived 55 years without a drum sander. I’m building one now because I have about 800 sq ft of flooring to sand, and I thought building it would be cool. The only reason I can come up with why you may need one is if your planning a lot of end grain cutting boards.

I agree with Ken on the 3hp band saw. I have a walker turner with a 3/4 hp motor, and I split a several 4 foot chunks of red oak and birch, 9” wide. It was a little slow, but the point is, 3 hp for a hobby shop should be more than adequate.

I also agree with Ken on everything else he said, I hate multiple function machines, and 12 in jointer scares me.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Loren's profile

Loren

7739 posts in 2338 days


#4 posted 12-31-2012 10:12 PM

A flip-table jointer/planer with a slot mortiser is a great
tool to have in a small shop. Separates are nice too
of course but they take up a lot more space and
having the wider jointer in a combo is nice. I wouldn’t
especially recommend the ones that have the butterfly
hinged tables. The ones where the tables lift up
as one unit are a better design, imo. The slot
mortiser is really nice to have because then you
can skip the various portable joinery tools like plate
joiners, Domino tool, doweling jigs, chisel mortisers
and so forth. While the loose tenon joints slot
mortisers do best do have a few minor issues, in
general they are a high quality and fast to make
joint with the a stationary mortising machine.

I recommend a track saw for cutting the backs of
large cabinets and things like that. I built a vertical
panel saw for this application but I also have an
EZ-smart setup (had a Festool before and don’t
especially recommend it considering the other
choices now on the market).

If you want a shaper or a substantial router table
setup, get a power feeder. The feeder will
make for cleaner and safer cuts and less sanding
of profiles.

A vacuum veneering setup opens up considerable
possibilities no matter what your experience level.

A bandsaw with an 18” or larger throat is nice because
it allows more flexibility in making all sorts of casual
freehand cuts. Resaw capacity is over-rated in
my opinion, but almost nobody seems to agree
with me. Wide boards usually move after resawing
anyway so my general preference is to rip boards
down to 4-6” wide, then resaw, then joint. It’s
less stressful and the saw setups are less finicky
when you stay under 7”. If you really want to
resaw wide boards, look at getting a resaw
feeder (about $1000 and up).

If you’re really looking at dealing with logs, get a
sawmill.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Ant's profile

Ant

27 posts in 710 days


#5 posted 12-31-2012 10:21 PM

Don:Why a Drum Sander? Mainly having the ability to sand multiple boards to the same thickness / speed of which to sand the above mentioned boards to the same thickness / Dust Collection / And it sounds like a really really kewl machine (Kidding)

It’s a hobby at this point and will remain. But I take my hobbies to extremes and very seriously. That’s just me unfortunately.

I am curious as to why a 12” Jointer scares you? Just the amount of exposed blade when pushing narrower boards through?

Loren – Not sure what manufacturers have the slot mortiser > Never even heard of it !! Can you mention them? Would love to check that option out.

As for the Sawmill I am making plans for one but it’s down the road. My wife and I purchased 150 acres about 6 years ago then planted 25,000 trees of many varieties. We plan to retire on the acreage in 10 years. So for now I will be using the bandsaw with plans to use a portable mill later in life.

-- Ant

View Don W's profile

Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#6 posted 12-31-2012 10:32 PM

oh, really nothing scares me, but just the thought of pushing a board through a 12” jointer. I’d rather use a planer, and as Ken said, its a matter of proportion. 12” jointer means a 15” planer and so on.

I take my woodworking hobby pretty serious as well, but I’ve been doing it for about 40 years, so I know exactly what I like and what I don’t.

What do you plan to make? Sanding multiple boards to the same thickness is great, if you’re doing a lot of boards. Remember a planer makes then the same thickness as well.

Understand I’m partially just playing devils advocate here, but over the years I’ve bought to many things that just sit idle. I thought it through, bought a good one, didn’t settle for small, used it once or twice, then there it sat. My biscuit joiner comes to mind.

I turn my jointer on about 3 times a year, so the 6” does just fine. All I do is joint with it and only when its rough lumber (which I use a lot of)

I also agree with Loren. I have a 12” re-saw capacity but doubt I would resaw a 12” piece unless it was a very special reason. Sure I’d be glad I had it, but is it worth the extra for that once or twice in a life time?

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View LukieB's profile

LukieB

939 posts in 1020 days


#7 posted 12-31-2012 10:35 PM

If…I had 6,000 to buy those 4 machines
http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2063658/24443/jet-oscillating-drum-sander-kit-with-closed-stand-model-2244.aspx

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2083658/35880/laguna-14-bandsaw-3-hp-leeson-motor-lt14-suv.aspx

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2004893/29457/dewalt-13-twospeed-planer-package.aspx

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/2063561/23795/jet-6-jointer-with-helical-head-kit-model-jj6hhdx.aspx

106.02 left-over to put toward tax, LOL

I have a 6” Joiner and find that adequate for most tasks I do, if anything wider than that needs to be flattened, I bust out the hand planes….

But be prepared to ask the wife for another 6000 once you start down that slippery slope : )

-- Lucas, "Someday woodworks will be my real job, until then, there's this http://www.melbrownfarmsupply.com"

View live4ever's profile

live4ever

983 posts in 1700 days


#8 posted 12-31-2012 10:41 PM

Well, I’d spend 6 grand like this:

Grizzly 0514X2 1500
Hammer A3-31 with silent power head (if you must have a 12” jointer and can live with a 12” planer) – 4000
Jet 16-32 or 22-44 900-1500

or

Grizzly 0514X2 1500
Grizzly 0453Z/PX (if you want a larger planer and can live with 8” jointer) 1600
Grizzly 0490X 1200
Jet 16-32 or 22-44 900-1500
TOTAL = ~5500

For me a 8” jointer would be more than enough for 99.9% of what I need to joint. Heck, my 6” jointer is good enough for 97% of what I joint.

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View Ant's profile

Ant

27 posts in 710 days


#9 posted 12-31-2012 11:10 PM

Thanks Don

Projects on the near horizon is I need to fill one wall of my garage with Cabinets. I am going to build a 22 foot wall with floor and wall cabinets and a workbench on the top of the floor cabinets. Next my wife wants me to build new Kitchen Cabinets. They are new Cabinets and a new Kitchen when we bought it but We both would prefer a higher end look and maple or Cherry. What we have now is maple plywood and I want solid maple. Then the Mrs wants an entire bedroom suite. Dressers, End Tables, Headboard for the bed etc …..

Then I am going to build another building out back on my property for storage / Garden equipment / Tractor etc

In the works is a new addition to the house of which I would like to build a walk in closet with lots of cabinets / drawers etc for the Mrs Clothes. Along with that we are going to ad a third bathroom so I will need more storage cabinets and storage.

Somewhere in the mix I would like to redo the fireplace mantle and do cabinets / Shelves on both sides of the fireplace.

We are trying to finish the design on our backyard. We have a half an acre on this property and I want to build a large gazebo with a small kitchen, outdoor TV, and firepit.

Those are just the first few projects I have going…... What do ya think? be done in a couple of months : )

That’s why I posted this post. I know it’s my decision as to what to buy / purchase. But I really would like to do this only once if possible….... Seems impossible though.

Thanks again sir

Ant

-- Ant

View Ant's profile

Ant

27 posts in 710 days


#10 posted 12-31-2012 11:15 PM

Thanks Lukie, Don, Loren, Medicken

live4ever I am looking at those machines now…...The Hammer looks SLICK!! I’m not sure how I feel about Aluminum fences…...... Anyone using one of these? Mortiser built in? SICK!!

See that’s why I posted this…... Never heard of a Hammer and no idea you could get a Mortising Machine in a Planer/Jointer!!!

More Confusion sets in

-- Ant

View Ant's profile

Ant

27 posts in 710 days


#11 posted 12-31-2012 11:27 PM

Lukie Looking at the Laguna now…....... Looks like a beast.

I am guessing quality of the machine is on par with grizzly or a step above?

-- Ant

View RonInOhio's profile

RonInOhio

720 posts in 1554 days


#12 posted 12-31-2012 11:27 PM

I just got done reading all the posts . Sorry. deleted my
original response. But, I wouldn’t sink large amounts
of cash into a tool if I didn’t have a need for it.

If you have to ask if you need it, then you probably
don’t need it.
Do you have the basic tools yet ?
Good measuring tools, some quality hand tools,chisels, clamps, dust
collection.
Sounds like the TS is a good choice if you can afford the
extra cost.
Its always good to get advice, but much of what you
will need will be determined by the type of projects
you will be building.

I would not buy a machine until I saw I had a definite
need. Thinking a machine is cool is not a very cernible
reason to plunk down big time cash for it.

View Don W's profile

Don W

15245 posts in 1257 days


#13 posted 12-31-2012 11:30 PM

Impossible to do it once. Probably.

It sounds like you’re spending $6000 on a weeks worth of work. :-)

When I put my shop together, I did it a little different. I started scouring for used. I have a grizzly 3hp cabinet saw I paid $200 for, a delta 6” jointer that was $100, a 16” walker turner bandsaw, $100, a 5hp lesson dust collector with pipe, $300. You get the idea.

They all needed some work, some more than others, but I like the work.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View thedude50's profile

thedude50

3525 posts in 1168 days


#14 posted 12-31-2012 11:39 PM

One thing to do before you drop this much coin is to know exactly what your really going to make. I mean this sincerely I rarley need to joint anything bigger than my 6 inch jointer can do. I also see no hand tools listed in your budget and feel you should look into layout tools and other tools you may need. I am sure you will buy what you want to but one thing for sure imho i WOULD NOT SPEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY ON INFERIOR TOOLS

-- when I am not on Lumberjocks I am on @ http://thisoldworkshop.com where we allow free speech

View lowellmk's profile

lowellmk

61 posts in 662 days


#15 posted 12-31-2012 11:46 PM

Hi -

I wanted to commend you on deciding on a SawStop. I purchased this saw about a year or so ago (the cabinet model) and love it! Not only do I think this saw’s technology is long overdue, I also have found this saw highly accurate and a joy to use!

I have a mix of power tools including a Powermatic 14” bandsaw on a riser block (really good for re-sawing) wired for 220. My SawStop is also wired for 220. I have a nice Jet drill press as well.

I have a 6” jointer and think a 8” spiral would be great! You’ll want to have that wired for 220, too.

Lastly, I have a Jet 16-32 drum sander. Why? It allows me to flatten (make parallel) boards/glue-ups up to 32 inches wide and allows me to take as little as 1/64th of an inch of a board at a pass. I can also resaw exotics and make my own book matched veneers to just about any size I want. I use this method to make highly patterned legs on Arts and Crafts furniture. All of this reduces my need for a larger jointer.

Keep in mind that the drum sander has a 3” thick capacity – you cant smooth the edges of a 6” board, for example . Also, you should know that this tool not a fast way to dress a board. But I use it a lot and love the sander. You’ll definitely need dust control for this sander. It throws off a ton of dust that can be very hazardous to your health and disrupt the sander.

One suggestion – you may also want to consider a ceiling mounted air filtration system to help filter the airborne particulate matter. It protects your lungs and reduces the sawdust settling on the shop.

Hope this helps.

-- Wag more, bark less.

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