LumberJocks Woodworking Forum banner

This one is worn out. I guess not completely.

9K views 295 replies 75 participants last post by  kelvancra 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
We need to restrict guns. The US of A has too many guns in the wrong hands and this should be stopped.
 
#3 ·
It seems Those who would always have guns if guns where restricted are those who break the law any way. perhaps bigger sentences for those who have illegal guns. Even with more strict laws in place I'm afraid the last two incidents still would have happen.I really don't know what the answer is.
 
#4 ·
Give everyone a gun. Then at least the good guys that follow the laws can protect themselves. I think there would be an increase of shootings for a few years but then it would drop off drastically since all those would be shooters will have been shot already.
 
#7 ·
Banning guns wont work. It has been done before in Washington DC and there were still shootings all the time there.
If they can't get guns they will use knives or pipe bombs or chemicals. There will always be something to use to do this evil. The world trade centers were brought down with box cutters. As long as there is evil in the world there is nothing that can be done to prevent these tragedies.
 
#8 ·
Myself? I think better parenting as a start. Kids raise there selves The TV is the babysitter. The problem is that there is an infinite number of ways to commit these terrible crimes. Remove one and it's still infinite. I pray for the families.
 
#9 · (Edited by Moderator)
It's not the guns, it is the poor values from the people committing the crimes. They will get them no matter. We are just too tolerant of criminals; adapt tougher laws and shorter death penalty sentences for horrific crimes like rape of children and murder. Why is that when gang members get in shootouts with police we ever let them out of jail? They have made they're statement that they do not care and will not follow the rules of society. Our prisons have become big business is why. Just my 2 cents worth.
Having guns in my house to protect my family is every American right, even though the government is trying to take that away.
I did a paper in collage about gun control in Florida. When the citizens were allowed to carry them in cars as long as the chamber was empty the politicians cried. Stating, "they're would be so many more shootings." Result's: Shootings went down, criminals got worried that everyone was going to shoot them or shoot back.
 
#10 ·
I want to ban spoons. They made me fat. And Chevy pickups…they ran over the dog. Ban all green veggies, they give me gas. Ban all food coloring and sugar. They make kids go crazy. Ban the loud music and digital games cuz kids don't exercise any more. Ban all motorcycles so we won't have any more gangs. Also ban the use of the colors Red and Blue…gang colors. Every once in a while, some goofy cop somewhere beats the crap out of a purp…..lets get rid of all cops. And, no more power tools or sharp tools. They cut off fingers and other serious damage to bodies. And, from now on…no one gets to have a brain. Brains think and come up with bad ideas like shooting innocent people. NO BRAINS for anyone any longer
 
#11 · (Edited by Moderator)
In the grand scheme of things, the US is a safe, civilized place to live….....today. Most of us currently live in safe communities and can count on the police/government to provide a reasonable level of protection. So it might make sense to ban/restrict (non-hunting)guns…....today. Afterall, who needs a gun to protect themselves in a county (like mine), that has virtually no violent crime?

BUT- what about ten years from now? Or 50 years? What if our fed/state/loccal governments go bankrupt, or otherwise can no longer be counted on? Heck, what happens if the government BECOMES a threat (see Syria for the most recent example). Then the 2nd amendment might make more sense to the gun control advocates. Of course, if you write off the 2nd amendment today, its highly unlikely we'll ever get it back…....even if our society becomes less civilized than it is currently.

I personally believe that gun ownership is a sacred liberty…......and a huge liability. I'm glad I have the right to bear arms. But I also realize that my right does have a catch. I also have the responsibility to keep my weapons locked in a metal cabinet and take all other reasonable measures to ensure my children and/or burglar cannot access them. In this case, this 20yo was in possession of two handguns. Since you must be 21yo to own a handgun, he obviously did not procure them legally. I'm willing to bet his 24yo brother is missing a couple handguns.
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
Did you notice that when alcohol was banned, how the rate of drinking/drunkenness/alcoholism was zero? Pretty cool, huh?

You know, that gives me an idea: Instead of having a "War on Drugs", why don't we just ban drugs? Then there wouldn't be any!

Wait, wait, wait….I just had my finest inspiration yet. No one wants murder, right? So we ban it. Think what would happen. No murders.
 
#13 ·
Madts, Texas and Florida have concealed carry permits, you rarely if ever see this kind of news in these states since the laws were passed.

Here in Mexico, guns are banned, we had approximately 100000 deaths in the last 6 years because of the "drug war". Here only criminals have guns. The only one who gets the full weight of the gun laws here in Mexico is the honest citizen who is trying to protect him or herself. Criminals do not care nor have they anything to loose by going to jail.

Banning guns is not the solution, nor is it passing laws that restrict the ownership of said guns to honest people. What has to be worked out is how to prevent criminals and unstable people from getting them. This is a difficult situation, how to reach a balance between freedom and security. Unfortunately there will always be someone that will break the laws because of greed and will make guns available to those who are willing to break the law. Until someone far brighter than me comes out with a solution, I rather have the freedom to own a gun and at least have a chance to defend myself without risking the rest of my life in jail, than be at the mercy of a criminal because I know that if I kill him I am going to jail because of the ban on guns.
 
#16 ·
"bigotry is the root of all evil"

I agree.

And the word bigot is defined by Merriam-Webster as "a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions"

Like the belief that any law, limitation, or restriction policy would have had any effect whatsoever on a lunatic that would go an kill his own mother and a room full of innocent children is pure stupidity.
 
#19 · (Edited by Moderator)
What do you want to stop, school shootings or gun violence?

If you want to stop school shootings, the solution is easy…you give a certain number of teachers and/or administrators on a given campus a gun and you train them in its use. Whether concealed or kept in a gun safe - perhaps unlocked centrally by admin during a "shelter in place" lock-down - you train those people very well in its use. It wouldn't take many…just the public knowledge that certain people In a school are equipped to protect the kids.

Short of that the only solution is metal detectors in all schools…and that's expensive.

But if people knew that somebody like the principal of a school had a gun, for example, then that would be a deterrent to these disasters.

People who use guns like that on innocent others are cowards…so lets see how brave they are when they KNOW somebody on a school campus might challenge them.

If you want to stop gun violence, then you better hope the world ends on the 21st like the Mayans said, because only then will you prevent it.
 
#20 ·
BTW, I am a high school teacher. What happened in Connecticut can happen in my school tomorrow, and honestly, with the amount of security in our schools, especially suburban schools, it's a miracle that there hasn't been MORE of these things happen as there has been.

My school is open campus, people coming and going freely through any of 30+ exterior doors. And as many kids as I seem to piss off, it's amazing that I've never been threatened with violent behavior.
 
#21 ·
Horror. Plain and simple.
My wife is a Special Education Teacher. Deals with troubled every day.
Sure thay have metal detectors…that are unplugged beacuse running them would be to costly.
I can agree first hand to what cosmicsniper has said: its a miracle this doesn't happen more.
Vigilance is a must.

We put air marshals on planes to deter terrorism after 911, perhaps it's time to patrol what is closer to home; the schools.

There will never be a total ban on guns, get used to it.
I'm sorry and i know its hard to swallow but, This is the cost of a free society.
 
#22 ·
It's an extremely sad day today. My heart and prayers go out to all the families envolved. Such a tradgedy. I don't know what has gone so wrong in our society that is creating such confused and insane individuals to do such a horrible thing. The last thing I can even think of doing right now is getting in an argument about gun control….
 
#23 ·
Tedstor, the guns belonged to his mother, which she probably obtained through legal means. Ken90712, I agree with what you're saying, the morals of this country are going downhill. Look at all the violent video games for sale. I heard about one teenager shooting two of his friends dead, only to realize that they were not getting up after being shot. He was asked why he shot them, and he said, "they get up in the cartoons, so I figured my friends would get up after I shot them". And this was a teenager who said this! This country and the world are going through a tough time with all the violence going on right now; I just wish, like all of you, that I had the answer for this, but I don't. My prayers go out to the families of the victums.
 
#24 ·
Due to my profession I have studied this in depth and attended many seminars on the subject-I say this (humble opinion of course):

If my daughter was one that had been murdered I admit I would probably side with the gun ban crowd. I probably wouldn't be able to help myself and I would need some sort of immediate remedy to feel like I had some control. But being in law enforcement allows me somewhat different perspective on the why's, how's, and all the other questions we are forced to keep asking our society.

Through the military and my current profession I have seen death and pain more than I ever would care to. I see a lot of other veterans on this site and am sure some of you can relate. Usually it is the innocent that are hurt and, in my experience, the bad people that get to enjoy all the freedoms and safeguards that our society provides. It is difficult to watch and even more difficult to be a part of that "system" that appears so unjust.

That being said, I am of the opinion that firearms or gun control are but a distraction of a much more sinister issue. Regarding firearms, the technological advances made in the past 100 years have done almost nothing to increase the lethality of firearms. The 1911 pistol (I believe created in 1908; I know some gun guy is going to correct me) held about seven rounds and fired in semi-automatic mode. The Browning automatic rifle (1915ish - .308 caliber - 10 rounds), Thomson sub-machine gun (1919ish - .45 caliber - 20-100 rounds).

The point is that the lethality of firearms has remained steady. The main difference now, in technology, is the weight reduction and a greater ease in reloading capability. Magazine capacity has only slightly increased in general.

School shootings, public shootings, usually ending in suicide are a relatively new phenomenon. Something has changed in the last ten to fifteen years and it hasn't been firearms. Col. Dave Grossman has written several fascinating books on the subject "On Combat", "On Killing", "Terror at Beslan" and a few others. What can be seen in studies is that violence has drastically increased with the availability of television and video games. These studies have been shown to correlate the recent rise in violent activity with the prevalence of the horrific movie genre and violent gaming industry.

I remember watching Gary Cooper and others killing people in movies but the messages of movies were different. Cooper played a sheriff in High Noon where he killed multiple people but he was reluctantly fighting against bad guys who were out to do harm. He was clearly wearing the white hat. Older movies show the good guys fighting the bad and draw a clear distinction between them.

I admit that I am a big fan of the man with no name series, but the hero, Clint Eastwood, is a bad guy. Newer movies have taken this even further. Most movies now are "root for the bad guy" films. The hero does terrible things for the sake of doing terrible things. They hunt down, admittedly bad people, and kill them but, in so doing, commit atrocities themselves. These atrocities are considered necessary to get things done and justified by the "even worse" bad guys. One only need watch shows like Boondock Saints, Reservoir Dogs, Saw, or Natural Born Killers to see this change. Some are outright snuff films.

Video games are much much worse. There are main stream games like Grand Theft Auto where you play the main character, an ex-con just released from prison. The point of the game is to complete a storyline that is rife with graphic displays of drugs, sex, and murder. During the game you steal every vehicle you find and kill the police who inevitably attempt to stop you. The more police and citizens you kill the more points you rack up.

Games nowadays are based on killing everything you see. The killing is more insidious because the gamer plays a bad person likely killing police and innocent people for extra points. The kill count is what is important and the more gruesome way things are killed the more the in-game reward.

Check out these games to understand what kids are playing: Postal 2, Grand Theft Auto 3, and Manhunt. There is even a game that replays the Columbine massacre albeit it is not mainstream.

Correlation does not always mean causation but one cannot overlook the almost perfect correlation between workplace violence and the video game culture.

On a side-note, I recently attended training where a psychiatrist spoke about the "me culture". An interesting topic, his theory is that kids are told from a young age that they are wonderful and cannot fail. Everyone gets a trophy and a chance to play so that nobody ever has their feelings hurt or their self esteem damaged. When they get a bit older, late high-school and early adult-hood, they have never developed the coping mechanisms against real life situations that previous generations have and they "lose it".

I don't mean to debate anyone or debase arguments made against firearms from other members here. I respect everyone's opinion. Just my 2-cents.
 
#25 ·
They started pat downs in some movie theaters after the massacre during the showing of the Batman movie, not that long ago. Next time, it could be in a grocery store, a hardware store, a restaurant, a public street, etc. We can install metal detectors, enforce more police, and we can make it impossible to buy anything more dangerous than a piece of gum without a license, background check, letter of recommendation, etc.

And this will still happen.

We live in a society of people who dehumanize each other every day. Go into a mall, restaurant, school, any public place, and listen to how we all interact with each other. When a person makes a mistake, listen to the string of insults that come out of someone's mouth. Go on youtube, amazon, rotten tomatoes (a movie review site) and read the dialogue when someone posts something. People don't say "I disagree" or "nice attempt at creating a how-to video," you get comments like "You are stupid."

I couldn't give an explanation to my kids about the "why" because the reasons are varied. What I did tell them is that every interaction they make in life, plants a seed. We can build people up or we can tear someone apart. Getting rid of guns won't help if we don't work on getting rid of hate first.

I want to be clear on this, I am not justifying these atrocities. What happened was horrible, I do not feel that those parents "got what they deserved." I do not believe that the people who commit such crimes should deserve mercy strictly because someone was mean to them at the office or picked on them at school. What I am saying is that our day to day interactions do have an impact. That we can make a difference in someone's life (or maybe lives) by what seeds we plant. That maybe we should stop looking at these events as a problem but a symptom and look at the other symptoms of violence in our society and target the real problem. That we should look at the bitter hatred, the increased anger, aimed at society and sometimes towards someones self worth. To ask ourselves why that anger and hatred is there and work on correcting it in our own little ways.

My heart goes out to those families as I hold my own kids close in gratitude.

David
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top