Two Questions - (if you have little tolerance for beginners, skip this topic :)

Joe:
My 2 cents on the edge jointer question is to use your router table. You can use an edge trimming bit and shim your router fence on the outfeed side for edge jointing up to 2” or so thick. I haven’t actually done done this, but I saw it in a wood working magazine. Sounds viable to me.

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

Joe,

I don’t own either one of the routers you mentioned.

After looking at the pictures of the hand planer, I think you could probably build a Jig/table to hold the planer in an inverted position. The addition of in feed and out feed tables and a vertical fence it might do what you wanted, although it would probably have limited capabilities for stock sizes and some other features found on a stand alone jointer.

As router/table combinations go, 1 1/4 hp routers are a little under powered for some applications (i.e. raised panels) but for most other work, they do OK. The ideal- in my opinion- would be a variable speed 3 hp model. It is very convenient to have a router that includes an adjustable lift mechanism so you can change height setting with less hassle.

One thing you mentioned- and it may be just the way you described it- the preferred technique for placing router bits in the collett is to not seat them completely. This helps prevent them from working loose.

Hope this helps.

Lew

you should look into some triton routers. they have a 2 and 3 hp. both are affordable and have been getting great reviews. next up on the list is a huge milwakee, freud, or festool 3 hp router. those are a bit on the expensive side though.

I would check out the reviews of routers here on LJs (and promote my favourite the Trition routers).

I would be a bit concerned about mounting the hand planer upside down as I would be concerned that B&Ds are designed to run upside down for any length of time. I would particularily be concerned about dust collecting inside of windings where normally gravity and the fans would keep it clear. Experiences with an old B&D belt sander come to mind when offering this advice :-)

I am as fond of power tools as the next person (look in my garage and you’ll see all kinds of evidence) but have you considered using a hand plane to do the work of the B&D plane? A hand plane has a small footprint so will fit in just about any shop, can dimension just about any size of material you may be working with and probably is an affordable alternative to buying a power jointer. The ease of use of power tools is often outweighed by their purchase price and space requirements. I am just learning to use hand planes myself and am very impressed with how well they do what they do (thanks Betsy!...this is a reference to another LJ who blogged her experience about learning to use a hand plane;-) The nice part about hand tools is that you can very quickly get up to speed shaping wood and not have to worry about financing. Yes it takes some practice, but from what I am seeing the practice is well worth the effort.

Oh yeah Welcome to Lumberjocks…an awesome community willing to share their knowledge to all levels of woodworkers!

-- ....next big purchase is wood for the next project, Mark

A No. 7 or equivalent hand plane (22 to 26 inches long) is great exercise and joints a nice edge.

I currently don’t have a jointer in my shop and I’ve been using my Ohio Tool Company No. 7 for edge and face jointing. Getting great workouts and good results.

Hey, I was just about to say exactly what Marc said. A hand plane will joint right nicely!

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

I saw a picture in a woodworking magazine of a hand plane clamped upside down in a bench vise and used as a jointer. I like to use the router for jointing by shimming the outfeed part of the fence about 1/16th of an inch out from the infeed part of the fence. Hope this helps.

-- Rich, Seattle, WA

I have never owned a “pernament router table” and for that matter…...........I’ve never used a router I didnt like.

-- http://www.furnituremann.ca/

I’ve just traded up to a Triton router. I’ve made my own table unit using a Rockler top. The Triton is great for height adjustment and for ‘above table top’ bit changes. I make one offs or 2 or 3 boxes at a time, so handling set up changes easily is important to me.
What’s wrong with doing a lot of fine adjustment until your happy with the result. As you do more work you’ll find you’re making adjustments much more smoothly and with confidence.
The idea of a hand planer upside down frightens me half to death. It was an option I considered, then quickly thought better of it!
With a simple jig, and a bearing mounted straight bit in your router table, you can replace the jointer function. I use this to edge all my boards – I make almost solely boxes, so am handling fairly small pieces. I edge trim up to 21” long – could see the jig working well up to about 3 feet, then it might be clumsy. If you need details of how the jig works, let me know and I’ll take some photos.

Thank you all very much for the all of your responses and very helpful suggestions and advice. I did some more router research looking into the Triton 3¼ HP model, a brand I was unaware of (I’m sure there are many) and several of the Freud 3¼ HP models (I saw very little difference between them). From the reviews it seems that the Triton line seems to be a mixed bag of great design and features but lesser quality control (lots of plastic where there shouldn’t be). I’m now leaning toward the Freud FT2200EP on the strength of its reviews (the worst seemed to be it’s weight, a real tank apparently). I would love to hear appraisal from any of those who own either of these.

As for my jointing issues I intend to purchase a manual hand plane and begin learning how to use it, but at this stage I certainly wouldn’t feel the least bit confident of my ability to joint with one of these. While I enjoy hand tools, carving etc. and am adept to some extent with a chisel, I lack the experience or methodology to produce technically precise pieces as yet which is why I lean on power tools hoping to lessen the gap between my technical craftsmanship and an acceptable outcome.

I’ve tried quite a few times to joint using the router table and shim method described by a couple of you, but my results have been less than satisfying. I believe this has be mainly due to the “underpowered” routers I own, neither of which seems unable (although admittedly it could just be me) to joint a ¾” piece of hardwood in less than 5 passes. That’s more adjustments than I believe should be necessary (3 passes is what I’ve read) and then you shim only on the last pass is how I’ve understood it. Does anyone know of a jig that might facilitate this? I’m sure a side to side independent micro adjustable fence would help, but then so would a winning lotto ticket!

Hopefully soon I’ll be beyond converting what use to be planned as a sideboard into the world’s most very expensive Jojoba skate board.

I’m also intrigued by the prospect of an upright jointing jig for my B&D 3½“ planer as I see little value in forcing myself to take the work to machine when the machine can more easily come to the work. If there are any jig design junkies out there, I would appreciate your thoughts on this as well.

Once again thank you all for your thoughts, they’ve help expand my own considerably.

Cheers to all.
:)

-- JMP

Some thoughts: IF (a big IF) you have the router mounted in an enclosed base then above the table height adjustments are a deal,though not necessarily big young jeddi. If not, why worry? It’s a matter of what? Right hand or Left hand to make the adjustment. The above base and below are just inches away. Literally. Why get hung up on it. If your router table is so big as to require the wingspan of two men, put a door on it. Done. It’s not a shaper, it’s a router table. If your production requirements are such that the millisecond difference is affecting you economically then you’ve already lost reading this far down this post. You should be feeding stock not reading schlock.

Secondly, a lot of engineering types, for whom I have guarded respect, as well as certain magazine scribes claim that it is only theoretically possible (likely impossible) to get an actual 3.5 h.p. form a 15 amp 125 volt circuit. I believe I have read this. I can cite no sources, it could be fevered imagination. There are a number of engineers out there, any takers to prove/disclaim this? There are apparently a number of ways to claim horsepower as well, which is probably why Both P/C and Bosch changed the h.p. ratings on the same model routers a few years ago. Both the P/C 690 and Bosch 1617 were once lowly 2 h.p. machines but now due to improvements in advertising, nanotechnology and flabbawattage they’re both 2 1/4 h.p. an increase of 1/4 h.p. by the mere utilization of a front slash and two cardinal numbers. And the addition of some stickers on the old packaging.

So get what you can afford. I’d highly recommend a two base kit (plunge/fixed). I’m partial to the Bosch. The new kits have an above table adjustable fixed base (oooooh) as well as the standard plunge base with seven stops on the turret, two collets (1/4 & 1/2), a handy carrying case, and occasionally on sale with a fence or other fabulous parting gifts.

As for the B/D jointer in a base, you can make up a fence assembly for the router that will make that much safer. Save the money that you might spend on a kludge for adapting that item and the attendant medical expenses from Things Gone Wrong Using It and put it towards the biggest baddest jointer with the longest table you can buy. (Then get a band saw)

I have been meaning to post photos of my recently completed “router table” fence and am now more motivated to do it.

And there are no stupid questions, just unasked questions. I grew up in cowboy country and still I wondered why quarter horses were the same size as the others. It was epiphany when I worked out all by my lonesome self that Century Boulevard in Los Angeles was actually 100th St. And so it goes . . .

What about your router bits? Are they sharp and clean? A dull router bit in a 1 1/4 hp router will slow it down and burn the wood. It may spin faster in a larger router but you will still have the same results. Try blowing out your router with compressed air to make sure the parts are clean and free of sawdust, this could slow the motor down or make it overheat. I have a 32 year old 1 1/4 hp Crafstman router that will cut through almost anything with a sharp bit.

-- NorthWoodsMan

Hi Joe

As for the “glue line on router table”, it reminds me myself…I could never get it right…
So, I’m using a more “Idiot proof” method that gives me “Jack-pot” every time…

Just to demonstrate the problem with the “Split fence” (with the 1/16” shimming) lets go to the table saw….

If you have a curved board, and you want to make a “straight edge”, you don’t just push the board through the blade because the rip fence is short and the wood will follow the rip fence line…but, if the wood is curved, you will almost “copy” this curve and you’ll not get any straight edge.

To get a straight edge on the table saw, the wood must follow a line that is parallel to the Miter slot or the rip fence….that’s the reason that we are making jigs like this one that, eliminates the curve and the wood follows the parallel line to the rip fence…

Or,like this one

Same with the Circular saw and straight edge…the saw is following the straight edge and not the curve….

The problem is, that the router table fence is too short and again, you’ll follow the curve….if you had a long fence that can support all the length of the wood on the Infeed side and all the length on the Outfeed side, you’ll get a very nice glue line but, when you work with a 6’ board it’s not so practical to have a 12’ long fence…

For that reason, I prefer to make the glue line with a straight edge, clamped to the board and, with hand held router….the router follows the straight edge and who cares how much the board is curved…

As for routers, please follow the advise of the other replies but a 1¼ HP router is stronger than my hand held router that you see on the picture above…

Taking into consideration that, 3¼ HP router is ~1,800 Watt (15A x 120V)...(here in Europe we don’t use HP but Watts), a 1¼ HP would be ~700W…the router on the picture is only…400W…of course I don’t “bite” 1/16”....much less but, it’s doing the job…

Please have a look at this post to see a step-by-step…
http://lumberjocks.com/topics/330

Regards
niki

niki has some good advice. i use the table saw method to straighten my boards.

Im sure most other folks answered your questions, however here are two blogs that I posted that may be of interest. I appologize if I am repeating what others have said.

Resawing without bandsaw – http://lumberjocks.com/topics/1073
Router Jointer – http://lumberjocks.com/topics/739

-- The significant problems we face cannot be solved by the same level of thinking that created them

I own a Dewalt 3hp (DW625) router which I use in my router table. I’ve never had an issue with having to seat the bit too high in the collet in order to get the fulll bit exposed. I’m really happy with this router. More than enough oomph to get the job done. The quality is first rate. The electronic control is great at maintaining bit speed. I recommend going with 1/2” bits no matter which brand you decide on. Less flex therefore more accuracy. I also own a 1 1/4hp craftsman and a 3/4hp B&D router with 1/4” collets. They all have their uses and all are serviceable. The key to a good cut is a quality sharp bit. I take multiple passes even with the 3hp, depending on the cut

-- Steve, New Zealand, www.steveracz.com

Electrical Engineer here (check the handle)...

It is very simple:
1 HP ~ 750 watts

Watts = volts X current

15 amps X 120 volts = 1800 watts

1800 watts / 750 = 2.4 HP from a common 14 AWG house socket

Now, this is complicated by the fact that motors are not 100% efficent. In fact, I usually use ~ 70% efficiency in motor calcs.

(1800 watts X 0.7) / 750 ~ 1.7 HP from a common 14 AWG house socket

If you run 12 AWG (20 amps max), you get:
20 amps X 120 volts = 2400 watts
(2400 * 0.7) / 750 ~ 2.24 HP

If you expect to get more than 2 HP from a common 120 V electrical outlet, you are kidding yourself.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

Again thanks to everyone for sharing their information; lots of good suggestions and interesting info for a guy just beginning to get his feet wet. With relation to the hardware I digested as much as I could find, followed all the links, read the various user comments on each of the available brands and models and ended up with the Bosch 1619EVS unit. Although I haven’t used it yet, it looks and feels pretty solid and I’m hoping it will perform as well as my other Bosch equipment, although like one of the reviews I read, I too am shocked by how much of the unit is plastic. I’ll just have to make sure not to drop it I guess.

I did determine that part of my initial issue was a reasonably well toasted bit whose replacement did manage to ease my last stint at the router table somewhat.

Now if I can just get use to the idea of jointing with a circular saw 

Speaking of which, I just picked up some expensive ¾ “ oak plywood for a project at the local yard ( thought I would try it since everyone was poo-pooing Lowes and HD). I paid 50% more for the board and it looked nice and straight at the yard. I muscled it home in my car (long story) and cut it to a manageable size tonight and the darn thing curled up like a Pringles potato chip! I’ve never seen that happen before. Any suggestions for how to neutralize the U shape in two 4×4 pieces of oak?

Cheers to all.
Joe

PS… Oh BTW…. I’m I the only person here that despises Sketch-Up ?.....Grrrrr….

-- JMP

back to the original intent of the post, one can do a decent job of putting a straight edge on stock 8/4 or less with a number of methods. Circular saw, router, etc. But one face should be flattened/jointed first and this can not be done with any of the above suggested methods. Face, then joint, then thickness,then rip. With power tools it is probably possible to reverse the last two, but I always reserve ripping to width as the final operation in case I need to clean up the skinny sides due to tear out on the face prep.