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Incra TS LS or LS Super System?

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Forum topic by UKCat posted 593 days ago 1831 views 1 time favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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UKCat

82 posts in 668 days


593 days ago

I have a question for anyone that owns either one of these systems. I am considering buying one of these 2 fences, but am not sure which way to go. Is it a PITA to change-over from one set up to the next with the TS LS? I like the TS LS in that it is one fence for both tools, but I also like the idea of having the router in its own cabinet.


16 replies so far

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1759 days


#1 posted 593 days ago

Do you avoid using a dado blade because you don’t want to set it up? The Incra TSLS is a much simpler conversion. It takes me about 30 seconds to switch modes, and that’s on a left side router wing. If the router is in the right wing, it’d probably take only the time required to slip on the Wonderfence.

I say it all the time, the Incra is the best tool in my shop. Even if I had the room and money for a standalone LS version, I’d still keep this current setup. I just couldn’t justify a second station, and even if I could I’d never go back to a lesser TS fence…and ALL fences are lesser fences compared to the Incra.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1759 days


#2 posted 593 days ago

BTW, the conversion time between modes is nothing compared to the time you save cutting wood with that fence. It’s astonishing how fast I can make a series of precision cuts on my TS.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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thebicyclecafe

4 posts in 850 days


#3 posted 593 days ago

I have the TS-LS with wonderfence super system add on. After the initial setup (first time you install the system), switching over takes about a minute. I have to have this system since my router tables are on the left and right side of my TS setup.
It’s dead on accurate, and so easy to do precision operations on the TS that I couldn’t before. For example, I can zero the fence to the outside of a dado stack, and move the fence out exactly to the length of a tenon.

I would highly recommend having the TS-LS since you’ll be using your TS to its maximum potential with it, plus you have all the benefits of the LS router system.

Also I’ve had the pleasure of dealing with incra on multiple occasions- Mark is my go to guy and he always seems happy to help me out, with informative answers.

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Thalweg

69 posts in 2007 days


#4 posted 593 days ago

I’ve got the LS-Super system in it’s own separate cabinet. I really like it. I find myself bouncing back and forth between the router and the table saw constantly. The way I work, having the router on the table saw would be very cumbersome, having to change the set-up each time. I can definitely see how it would be nice to have the Incra fence on the saw. I’ve got a good fence now, but I think the Incra would be better. Maybe someday I’ll get an Incra fence for the saw.

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live4ever

982 posts in 1611 days


#5 posted 593 days ago

I have the Super System on a standalone cabinet and just the TS-LS fence on the tablesaw. Though I could combine them all into the tablesaw station (and actually have a router plate there), I much prefer having them separate, even at the expense of space.

Like Thalweg, I bounce back and forth a lot. I find just having the positioner on the tablesaw does clutter the workstation a bit (and I’m kinda a cluttery guy), so I can’t imagine throwing a whole routing operation into the mix. I much prefer having routing in its own real estate, with its own storage to handle all the bits and accessories.

This is coming from a very space-challenged woodworker, so you know I really love my separate setups if I’m holding out combining them!

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

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UKCat

82 posts in 668 days


#6 posted 593 days ago

That’s the set-up I’m thinking about going with live4ever. I want the accuracy of incra on both my TS and router. My shop is space challenged also, but I really like the idea of router being in its own cabinet with storage for router accessories.

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live4ever

982 posts in 1611 days


#7 posted 593 days ago

I think you’ll like it. You can still have a router plate in your TS extension (not much added cost) and use it for simple dadoing or any operation where you don’t need to bury the bit in the fence. If you have more than one router (you know how they multiply), you can actually have two router tables setup.

Now that’s probably vastly overkill for the non-production woodworker, but I did utilize it recently on one project and it was quite efficient! I could bounce between TWO router table setups and the tablesaw and the ONLY minor annoyance I had to deal with was lowering the bit below the table on the TS’s router station. Moving the fence between TS and router setups was trivial because of the repeatable positioning.

Beware the accuracy vortex! You’ll start wanting to make all your fences with repeatable positioning, necessary or not. Crosscut sled fence, miter saw fence, drill press fence, etc. etc. A tip: 10-32 aluminum threaded rod can go a long way before you bankrupt yourself on Incra parts. :)

-- Optimists are usually disappointed. Pessimists are either right or pleasantly surprised. I tend to be a disappointed pessimist.

View MJCD's profile

MJCD

452 posts in 972 days


#8 posted 592 days ago

Long Live INCRA!

First, either system gives you dead accurate, fast, repeatable TS cuts.

Combining the RT & TS with an Incra setup is efficient, and very functional. What I found was that as I became more of an every day woodworker, the changeover got the better of me (though, I do sometimes lament now having a standalone RT). Go with the TS/RT combo, push the setup to where it becomes a bother – and it may never get to that point.

Send an e-mail to mark@incra.com: Mark Mueller will be glad to discuss the options, benefits, and disadvantages to the setup – he’s excellent.
MJCD-

-- Lead By Example; Make a Difference

View LeChuck's profile

LeChuck

417 posts in 1663 days


#9 posted 592 days ago

I have the whole system with the router mounted on the right. When I want to go from one to the other, besides lowering the router bit (I have a Triton with integrated lift), I need to move the carriage, but that really takes seconds, then sliding the wonderfence in, which is quick as well.

It is very accurate once initially setup. I just made a groove for a t-track in a fence as I’m building a crosscut sled. I needed a 3/4 groove and I have only a 1/2 inch bit. I also did it in several 1/8 height passes, so that’s a few cuts needed. So I set the fence to one setting with a specific bit height, cut a groove, then moved the fence to add a 1/4 inch, cut again, increased the height, cut, moved the fence back etc…It was bang on every time and my groove had the exact width I needed.

One thing I am still not clear on is how you can zero the wonderfence exactly to the router bit without changing your exact zero setting for the table saw.

-- David - Tucson, AZ

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1759 days


#10 posted 592 days ago

@LeChuck – Changing your zero position between TS and router modes depends on how you use the microadjust. If you don’t re-zero that setting, them you can recover TS zero once you transition back. Even so, zeroing at the TS is laughably quick.

BTW, if you set your carriage stops accurately (if you have to unlock the whole thing and slide it when transitioning as I do in my left-side extension), then you can actually have the same zero setting for BOTH the router (with Wonderfence) and the TS setup using the same zero mark on the metal rule. I did this referencing a 1/4” straight bit in my router and adjusting my carriage stops for the router accordingly. Of course the zero setting changes according to the bit being used, but at least it gets me in the ball park to start with.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1759 days


#11 posted 592 days ago

On a left side extension there are ways to alleviate the transitioning between modes. The obvious way is having digitals on the router and quick wrench lifts.

But I often find myself needing to make TS cuts, either rip or crosscut, while having a critical router bit height that I do not want to change. Many times, I can just leave the router bit in place and use the table saw with the fence carriage in router mode….re-zeroing and rip cutting with the Wonderfence still on the saw (which Incra doesn’t necessarily recommend). If you are careful with how you use the micro-adjust for the rezeroing, then bouncing back to the router zero position is repeatable.

Recently, I started doing something similar when crosscutting, using the miter gauge while retaining the router’s bit height. I use the Incra 1000 HD gauge in a Miter Express setup, and what would happen is that the sled would hit the router bit…but only barely. So, I actually pushed the TS sled through with the router running, which shaved about 3/8” off the edge of the sled. Doesn’t affect the integrity of the sled and it allows me to crosscut with the TS in that situation.

The point is that there are ways around some of those problems when needing to bounce back and forth between router and TS.

Ideally, yeah, we’d all like to have two router setups, but because I will ALWAYS have the Incra fence on the table saw, it just makes sense to utilize a router extension wing…even if you have funds for an additional table. Not only would you have the efficiency advantage of having two tables, but the extension wing also greatly increases the usable work area of the table saw. That’s an unsung advantage…especially when you use the table saw as your workbench like I do (out of necessity).

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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LeChuck

417 posts in 1663 days


#12 posted 592 days ago

Cosmicsniper, thanks. I didn’t touch the microadjust when I transitioned to the router, and it fell pretty close to the router bit, but since the fence goes in 1/32s, this may or may not be the case, and theoretically, you do need to use the microadjust. Since I zeroed it for the TS and I got it for the repeatability, I want to not have to adjust again every time, so I’m guessing if the zero on the router is not far from that, a few clicks on the microadjust, it’s easy to set that one back to zero when going back to the TS. That said, I have also thought of microadjusting the carriage itself as you mention, and once that’s done, it should be microadjusted for every bit out there and then zero adjusted by just moving the fence to another 1/32 position. Good thing is the carriage position for a router doesn’t have to be exactly parallel to anything if you’re not using a miter gauge.

-- David - Tucson, AZ

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1759 days


#13 posted 592 days ago

I think you have the idea. I really don’t obsess over zero position. I’m so afraid of cutting my fences that I’m pretty picky about zero positions and overall position awareness. Besides, you have to readjust for each bit anyway and zeroing doesn’t take much effort.

Plus, the Incra has many scales, so one of the nylon rulers usually marks the router position even if stainless steel ruler doesn’t.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View LeChuck's profile

LeChuck

417 posts in 1663 days


#14 posted 592 days ago

I find that because of the distance between the 2 positions, table saw and router, I cannot set a scale to the zero mark at all when I am in the router position. My router plate is just too far to the right on the router table (far from the table saw blade), so for example I have to imagine that 5 on the plastic scale is zero. I’d actually need a shorter scale for the router, or to have the router at least another 5 inches further away from the carriage (or to set the carriage at an extra 5 inches distance, but I’m already at the end of the rails). Not a big deal anyway. In any case, to sum up, there isn’t a lot of work switching from one to the other and both positions can be super accurate. It’s difficult to find the space for an extra free standing router table.

I used to have one of those jointer/planer combo machines, and that I certainly would not do again. The Incra fence is nothing in comparison.

-- David - Tucson, AZ

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Woodwrestler

55 posts in 747 days


#15 posted 578 days ago

Late to the game but the TS-LS is the one of the best tools in my shop. Once you have that thing dialed in you always know that your cuts will be dead on. Switching over to the Wonder Fence is very very easy. Once in a while you read posts about people griping that it takes too long. I have it on the left side right now and it takes more time to walk over to the place I have the wonder fence stored than it does to do the conversion. WHen you move the fence back into table saw position it remains ‘DEAD ON’. I never worry about that.

I just bought a used POWERMATIC 2000 table saw with the 50” Accufence and I will be converting my TS-LS to ther PowerMatic and not using the Accufence. I also will be moving the router table to the right side as the cabinet opens on the left on the PowerMatic. The conversion to a bigger saw only cost me $70 as Incra thought ahead about the issue. I also will need to buy a new router table for the right side.

The wonder fence is also a very easy to use and dead on accurate tool.

Thx

Gary

-- What man is a man who does not make the world a better place?

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