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European hinges gap problem

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Forum topic by mileskimball posted 624 days ago 2746 views 0 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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mileskimball

77 posts in 639 days


624 days ago

I’m having a problem on my first time using euro hinges. It’s a face-frame installation, 1/2” overlay, 105 degree hinges.

My problem is that on the hinge side, when the door is closed, there’s a good 3/16” gap between the face frame and the back of the door. If I adjust the hinges to lessen the gap, the door binds when it swings.

Do people usually put a bevel on the hinge-side back edge of the door for clearance?

Or do you drill the big hinge hole so it’s closer to the hinge edge of the door (thus if the hinge is on the right. shifting the door to the left when closed and away from the frame when opened)? I’m already drilling the hole within 3/16” of the door edge, though, so there’s not much room there to play with. This approach also shifts the overlay so it’s not even on the 2 sides of the door, and my doors and drawers would no longer line up vertically.

This has me very puzzled. On the bottom doors, the gap is big enough for you to actually see stuff inside the cabinet, which kind of defeats the purpose.

-- Miles


10 replies so far

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3318 posts in 1438 days


#1 posted 624 days ago

3/16 is a bit much, but 1/8” is pretty common. My hinges can usually adjust for it. If you think about it, on the non-hinge side you will have rubber bumpers. The bumpers are about 1/8” thick too, so the gap is symmetrical.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

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Loren

7389 posts in 2273 days


#2 posted 624 days ago

How far in did you drill your cup holes from the edge
of the doors?

You have to get that right (23mm generally) or the
door may bind if the hole is in too far from the edge.

Also, you are using half-cranked hinges, right?

With a non-cranked hinge the overlay at 23mm is
a bit less than a full overlay, so when cabinets are
put side-by-side, there’s about 3mm between the
doors.

With a half-overlay cup hinge hole drilled at 23mm
the 3mm gap is supposed to fall in the centerline
of a 19mm melamine panel. The overlay is actually
more like 3/8”.

Easing the edge of the door should be all that is
required but if the drilling of the cup holes is
too far in, then you have a problem.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1594 days


#3 posted 624 days ago

What thickness are the door stiles?

I haven’t used the face frame euro hinges, but on the inset (cranked) euro hinges, you run into problems with stiles thicker than 22/23mm. The edge binds when you open it if the stile is thicker than that.

Hafele.com have technical drawings on their website with all relevant dimensions for drilling etc.

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1594 days


#4 posted 623 days ago

^ Sorry, scratch that, I thought you had inset doors, not half overlay.

Are they the 8º crank half overlay hinges?

View DS's profile

DS

2131 posts in 1046 days


#5 posted 623 days ago

Some of the inexpensive one-piece hinges (hinge and baseplate in one) have up to a 3/16” gap like that. They also have a “throw out” when they open which can cause them to bind like that too.

It’s best to use a two-piece hinge. I personally like the Blum CLIP hinge, but many others will do fine. The gap is tight and there is no throw-out so the hinge can be set with very little side clearance and it won’t conflict.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3684 posts in 1993 days


#6 posted 623 days ago

I have used the two piece and they are very “forgiving” as far as misalignment goes. You can usually get them aligned and symetrically adjusted with little effort!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View mileskimball's profile

mileskimball

77 posts in 639 days


#7 posted 623 days ago

Thanks for the responses, everybody!

The stiles are 19mm, so that’s doesn’t seem to be the problem, and the cups are inset right about at 3/16 from the door edge, so that doesn’t seem to explain it either. Sounds like the problem may be that I’m using cheap one-piece hinges. Fortunately, I’ve only made three prototype doors (out of 28 for the whole kitchen I’m redoing), so I’ll chalk this up to the price of education.

DS251, is this the kind of Blum hinge you’re talking about?
http://www.hardwaresource.com/hinges/CABINET+HINGES/European+Hinges+-+Blum+Hinges/Blum+Clip+Top+Hinges/Blum+120+Degree+Clip+Top+Hinge%2C+Straight-Arm+Style

They’re a little spendy at $2.99 each – any other brands anyone might recommend that would be a little more economical?

-- Miles

View Loren's profile

Loren

7389 posts in 2273 days


#8 posted 623 days ago

Hafele has some economical hinges that work fine.

This is an industry supplier that has prices lower, in general,
than you’ll see at retailers that serve the handyman market.
http://www.baersupply.com/baer/wg-index.jsp

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View DS's profile

DS

2131 posts in 1046 days


#9 posted 623 days ago

Yes, that is the hinge I prefer. Though, you would need the winged baseplate for face frame mounting as well, so that is only part of the cost

Depending on where you live, there are several less expensive options. I would first explore a wholesale source for them to get the price down. Here's a good place to start.

Also, there are some no name brand hinges that are knock offs of this one that work just as well in most cases. Some of these get down into the $1.50 range for the plate and the hinge.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View DLawlessHardware's profile

DLawlessHardware

14 posts in 710 days


#10 posted 334 days ago

I know this is a closed discussion, but if anyone else comes along…

You are pretty much going to have a gap no matter what so that the door has room to clear when it swings open. Two-piece hinges can be used to lessen the gap, but it will always be as there is a minimum amount of clearance needed for the square corner of the cabinet door to clear the frame.

It’s really not something to worry about because you can only see it when looking straight down at the gap. If there is a drawer above it, a counter that overhangs even a little, etc. it will never be visible to anyone.

-- D. Lawless Hardware http://www.dlawlesshardware.com

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