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dust collector tip

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Forum topic by kizerpea posted 12-01-2012 02:00 PM 1299 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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kizerpea

746 posts in 1120 days


12-01-2012 02:00 PM

Topic tags/keywords: tip

Just thought i would share this TIP..used a car tire intertube to seal my cyclone to catch can…took me an a octopus to get it on there…but it just rolls up like a sock when i need to change the chip can..perfect seal with no clamp..

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.


15 replies so far

View pmayer's profile

pmayer

609 posts in 1818 days


#1 posted 12-01-2012 02:15 PM

Neat idea. You might consider swapping out that hard pipe and replacing with a piece of flex. That way you don’t have to remove your seal at all.

-- PaulMayer, http://www.vernswoodgoods.com

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OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 863 days


#2 posted 12-02-2012 12:40 AM

I like the section of clear pipe.

I might retrofit my cyclone with a section attached to my flex pipe, so I can see if the drum is full. I use plastic bags, so the window in the side of the drum is useless.

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#3 posted 12-02-2012 12:56 AM

I’m curious about what appears to be the all metal design. Did Jet make that or is it homemade? The reason I ask is because I just went through a huge deal with the City in order to get an operational fire permit, and it was all over dust collection. These portable dust collectors normally use cloth or plastic bags to collect the dust and the entire reason behind that is because of dust explosions. Although they are rare, if you were to have a dust fire in a bag it would just burn, where a dust fire in a metal bin could cause an explosion. Dust collectors that are made out of metal are designed in such a way to direct explosions in a controlled manner and they normally have to be outside of the building. They can be inside if the location they are in also has some specialized construction.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#4 posted 12-02-2012 12:56 AM

.duplicate deleted.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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bluekingfisher

1107 posts in 1732 days


#5 posted 12-03-2012 11:11 AM

Nice tip Steve, simple solution to one of those nagging prblems. Thanks for sharing

David

-- No one plans to fail, they just, just fail to plan

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OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 863 days


#6 posted 12-03-2012 04:11 PM

Mark,

I think you’re referring to a California or local code… ;^) There are LOTS of all-metal portable dust cyclones that are designed to be 100% indoors, Mine is a JDS product.

View Monte Pittman's profile

Monte Pittman

15513 posts in 1091 days


#7 posted 12-03-2012 04:53 PM

If my shop catches on fire, DC is the least of my worries. The shear amount of dust is a problem. Slowly getting better though. Thanks for the tip..

-- Mother Nature created it, I just assemble it.

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#8 posted 12-03-2012 05:08 PM

Barry, the original author and I have been discussing this in private message. Although California is pretty screwed up with its regulations, this one isn’t just a California thing. It comes from the National Fire Protection Association or NFPA. They have created volumes of standards and then States and local jurisdictions can adopt their standards as part of their own Building Code. I have no idea how many have done it, but it’s more than just California.

And although I’ve never seen a portable all metal dust collector, until I saw this photo, they can be used provided they comply with all the specificiations in NFPA assuming your local agency has adopted them as their building code. And the danger isn’t fire that they are too worried about, the danger they are trying to prevent is explosion. If you’re making saw dust there’s a chance you’re going to have a fire. But if that saw dust is in a confined space such as a sealed up metal drum, then the fire will come after the explosion.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m no advocate for all these regulations, but I did have to study them for about two months while I had to convince the City they were reading them wrong, because they were trying to make me have an all metal system that was located outside of my building. I had to fight for quite a while before I got them to realize there is an exception for small shops and the “enclosureless” dust collectors are allowed to be used. And by enclosureless, they mean where the saw dust is collected in a cloth or plastic bag that will burn, but won’t explode.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 863 days


#9 posted 12-03-2012 07:33 PM

Mark, Do you have any links? I’d be interested to read up. Was it mostly related to wood, or other types of materials, like grain?

I didn’t find much via Google. What I did find was mostly related to pneumatic material handing, specifically excluding dust.

As I think about it, my machine does have a plastic fine dust bag, on the back, with a metal drum for the larger particles and chips. Here it is: http://www.amazon.com/JDS-14060-3-Horsepower-Collector-220-Volt/dp/B00169L6UC

Thanks!

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#10 posted 12-03-2012 08:39 PM

NFPA.ORG is the website. Unfortunetly, they make you pay money to buy their regulations. It’s how they stay in business. Specifically the one you want to look at is NFPA 664: “Standard for the Prevention of Fires and Explosions in Wood Processing and Woodworking Facilities.” You can do Google searches and find various references to it. It’s a very complex set of rules. The one specific rule that would deal with a metal dust collector would be section 8.2.2.5.3 of NFPA 664. It gives some conditions in which you can use metal and it talks about things like the metal being able to contain and explosion based on the material being collected and having relief vents and things of that nature. There are also many other NFPA regulations that 664 refers you to, so you can’t just get a copy of 664. For example if you have a metal dust collector with vents the vents have to meet the standards of NFPA 68 which is the “Standard on Explosion Protection by Deflagration Venting.”

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#11 posted 12-03-2012 08:44 PM

Barry, if your machine is commercially made and available for sale in the US, I think it’s required to have complied with NFPA regulations. There are a couple of different certifying organizations that certify this compliance. One thing the building inspector checked on my Jet dust collectors was to make sure they were certified by one of these agencies that they accepted as legimate. The one Jet uses is out of Canada and they are accepted by the City I’m in. The label on the machine has their little seal of approval on it. These certifying agencies get these machines from the manufacturer and put them through all the tests required by various different regulations for safety. If they pass they get certified and then they can be used in commercial businesses and be sold in the US.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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justahobby

19 posts in 1330 days


#12 posted 12-04-2012 02:08 AM

@CessnaPilotBarrry:
You may find this page from my search helpful, second link from the bottom. Some other useful/ informative stuff there, too; not all current.

http://www.iepi.com.cn/Download/Standards/NFPA/

@Mark:
Is your setup commercial or residential? If the latter, did you need to have the dust collector permitted? In my locale I don’t think permitting is required, but the ex-fire chief is a neighbor, so I was going to have a jaw with him when I’m ready to step up with mine.

J

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#13 posted 12-04-2012 02:44 AM

My place is commercial, and my situation was very complex because the Chief Building Inspector didn’t have any experience in the area and did not understand dust collection. In the end I did not have to have a permit for the dust collectors, because I was allowed to use the Enclosure Dust collectors. There are exceptions in the NFPA guidelines for smaller shops. If you’re small enough you can use portable dust collectors, provided they comply with the NFPA regulations and they have been certified by an agency that is accepted to certify these these things. But if you exceed 5000 sf, or if you use wide belt sanders or large planers with mechanical feeds, or you have a need for more than a certain level of cubic feet per minute in dust collection, then you can’t use the portable systems and you have to have a completely engineered and permitted system. When you reach that level you are talking $25,000 and up because the system has to have automatic gates, and it has to be wired to come on automatically when any machine is turned on, and it has to be outside the building unless the building is specifically designed to contain the duct collector.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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OggieOglethorpe

907 posts in 863 days


#14 posted 12-04-2012 07:27 PM

Thanks Mark and J!

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Mark Smith

498 posts in 793 days


#15 posted 12-04-2012 10:35 PM

I learned more about dust collection in the past few months then I ever wanted to know or that I ever thought existed. It is a hugely regulated area, some of the regulation good, some bad. One thing I did find out is that in most fatal dust explosion accidents that have happened in the last few decades, the people were violating existing rules that led up to the explosion. But even though they were already violating those rules, it didn’t stop people from making more rules citing these fatalities as the reason. You also find things like they have rules that you can’t use PVC pipe in a dust collection system because they say it can cause a spark from static electricity. Yet according to some sources I have looked at, nobody can find anyplace where any system with PVC pipe has ever caused a spark that caused an explosion. And lots of people use PVC even though they aren’t supposed to.

-- Mark Smith, Tracy, CA., http://www.markscustomwoodcrafts.com

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