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Gluing African Blackwood to Walnut?

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Forum topic by dpoisson posted 11-28-2012 at 08:16 AM 1401 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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dpoisson

172 posts in 1551 days


11-28-2012 at 08:16 AM

Topic tags/keywords: rifle stock blackwood gluing walnut

Howdy everyone! I finally took the plunge and started modifying my rifle’s stock (an old mauser 96 action in 30-06 which has 2 mooses under it’s belt already!). The fore-end was a bit too thick for my liking and I wanted to give it a slimer profile. So I gave it a whack with my handplane. It’s starting to take shape. I also removed the hard hockey-puck buttpad so I can install a better one.

While doing this, I figured…might as well make it interesting and install an african blackwood tip! The thing is, I’m not exactly sure which glue would work best. I figured I could use the tips and tricks I was given maybe a year ago about gluing up bloodwood: acetone wipe first then Titebond III, is this correct (1)? But I read that TB III turns green when in contact with blackwood. Anyone ever had this happen to them (2)?

Also, since I ended up cutting the pieces very very slowly, it left the end-grain of the blackwood (and to a lesser extend, the walnut as well) very shiny. I read somewhere that I should scratch it up a bit with sandpaper (100 grit?) to give the glue more purchase. Sounds logical, do you guys concur (3)?

Keep in mind that this is for a hunting rifle: It will go out in the rain and snow and what not. So the glue needs to be able to not only bond exotic oily woods, but also be as waterproof as possible (especially since I don’t plan on putting a varnish on the wood, but use only an oil finish).

If someone could enlighten me on my 3 interogations, it would really make my day!

Cheers,

Fish

PS: I also wanted to install bloodwood plugs on the sides of the receiver, like you see on those safari rifles. I have a lathe, so I figured I could turn some slightly tapered plugs. I’m still undecided though on that…we’ll see how it goes with the tip and reshaping first and go from there!

-- http://picasaweb.google.ca/dpoisson


14 replies so far

View EPJartisan's profile

EPJartisan

1052 posts in 1762 days


#1 posted 11-28-2012 at 11:39 AM

HI.. I am curious about other people’s process, but when I mix domestic with dense exotics I usually scuff the exotic and wipe it down with either acetone or alcohol… instead of titebond… I use Westsystem resin epoxy mixed with a little of the exotic dust as filler… the reason I developed this is because open grained domestics can dry the wood glue much faster than the exotics can and the first time stress or moisture comes in.. the two will split apart.. But I make a lot of ritual tools and things that can get left outside…Resin has not failed me on this yet.

The funny thing is… just before I read this post, I am gluing up a small sign for a company of their logo in alternating walnut and bloodwood. I scuffed the bloodwood with 220 sandpaper, wiped with alcohol (warning… alcohol will darken the bloodwood) and then thought… hmmm.. I am gluing face to face.. and I grabbed the titlebond III. Now I am worried. Not that I couldn’t start again, but a moments decision… and this sign is to sit on a office desk, not be played with outside… sigh..I will let you know tomorrow.

-- " 'Truth' is like a beautiful flower, unique to each plant and to the season it blossoms ... 'Fact' is the root and leaf, allowing the plant grow and bloom again."

View Scott's profile

Scott

101 posts in 861 days


#2 posted 11-28-2012 at 12:15 PM

Hmm, I’ve never heard of this process for gluing exotics. I made some segmented wine balancers out of bloodwood and maple and had no problems with the glue strength. Going on a few months with a wine bottle in one, although maybe that’s not enough stress.

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David Craig

2135 posts in 1746 days


#3 posted 11-28-2012 at 12:16 PM

Doesn’t wine reduce stress Scott? ;)

-- There is little that is simple when it comes to making a simple box.

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dpoisson

172 posts in 1551 days


#4 posted 11-28-2012 at 12:27 PM

EPJartisan: Thanks for the reply! Do let me know how it goes. I don’t have any glue left (I mean NONE!), so I have to purchase a bit of whichever glue will work for this project. I’ll wait to see what everyone has to say about which glue would work best.

Cheers!

-- http://picasaweb.google.ca/dpoisson

View Nicky's profile

Nicky

636 posts in 2729 days


#5 posted 11-28-2012 at 12:43 PM

I’ve not had any issues with TB III. I’ve used Blackwood for some inlays and plugs. I do wipe with acetone before I glue. I have never noticed the green tone you mention. Sanding with 100g should be fine for the glued surface. If you’re really concerned, use a good grade, waterproof, clear epoxy.

I’d be more concerned with application of the Blackwood. If I understand your post, you are essentially replacing the butt plate, made from hard rubber with Blackwood. Blackwood is really nice, polishes to a beautiful finish, works well with hand tools etc… My concern would be that it is a very brittle wood. When I use a small block plane, my shaving crumble (not nice silky ribbons). I’ve dropped this stuff off of my bench and it chips. This stuff does not react like other woods. May of may not be problematic, but I enjoy skeet shooting. The butt of my shotgun has hit the ground hard, or the car door, or the bed of the pickup. Just food for thought.

-- Nicky

View Randy_ATX's profile

Randy_ATX

673 posts in 1079 days


#6 posted 11-28-2012 at 02:28 PM

Hi Nicky – I think you read it wrong – the buttpad will be replaced with a newer, better buttpad. The Blackwood will likely be a new tip at the opposite end of the stock.

-- Randy -- Austin, TX by way of Northwest (Woodville), OH

View dpoisson's profile

dpoisson

172 posts in 1551 days


#7 posted 11-28-2012 at 04:19 PM

Nicky: Yes, what austintexas said. I will be replacing my older, crappier, buttpad with a Limbsaver or Pachmayr (undecided yet). The african blackwood is for the tip of the rifle at the opposite end of the rifle! Thanks for your input on the gluing up and which glue you used.

By the way Nicky, how did you make/install the plugs? Out of which wood did you make them?

Cheers!

-- http://picasaweb.google.ca/dpoisson

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1598 days


#8 posted 11-28-2012 at 04:47 PM

My experience has been that there are dowels used along with the glue for a forend of a different wood.

View Nicky's profile

Nicky

636 posts in 2729 days


#9 posted 11-28-2012 at 05:13 PM

Sorry I missed the location.

Plugs made from Blackwood. I have a few small logs. The milling starts on the band saw, where I’ll cut a board a little thicker then needed, then rip. I use a hand plane to the final thickness. I like to pillow the top when these sticks are long using progressive grits of sandpaper over a thin sponge. Final at 400g leaves a nice shimmer, cut to length with a gents saw. Once plugs are cut I’ll fit by cutting a back bevel on the bottoms with a chisel. A little glue in the square hole, and tapped in to stand proud of the surface. I really like Greene and Greene furniture where these plugs add a nice accent.

-- Nicky

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EPJartisan

1052 posts in 1762 days


#10 posted 11-29-2012 at 11:41 AM

Just took the clamps off.. the lamination looks good and solid, my studio got quite cold last night.. so I am going to keep an eye on it for a few days to makes sure it is stable. After the other posts… and I asked my father who is a gun smith about your rifle… he says epoxy is the safest route. Good luck :)

-- " 'Truth' is like a beautiful flower, unique to each plant and to the season it blossoms ... 'Fact' is the root and leaf, allowing the plant grow and bloom again."

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dpoisson

172 posts in 1551 days


#11 posted 11-30-2012 at 11:03 AM

Hi guys, thanks for all the replies.

@EPJartisan: By the way, since you have access to a real gunsmith (!), could you ask him if he has a good recipe for an oil finish? I have some danish oil on hand, so that’s probably what I’m going to use to finish the rifle. I was thinking of using 50/50 danish and denaturated alcohol for the first coat, then use 100% danish oil for the other coats (4-5 in total). I’d really appreciate it!

@EPJartisan, knothead62: I will try to use a dowel as well. I hadn’t planned on using one (too much work honestly! and I’m not that well equiped to do it), but after watching Larry Potterfield from MidwayUSA on youtube install, shape and inlet a barrel channel in an ebony fore-end tip, he seemed to suggest it was a good idea to use one as well. Not sure how I’m going to do it though.

Cheers!

-- http://picasaweb.google.ca/dpoisson

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dpoisson

172 posts in 1551 days


#12 posted 12-05-2012 at 11:54 AM

Hm, guys, I was about to do the glue up yesterday and noticed I didn’t have any acetone on hand. Could I substitute acetone with Mineral Spirits?

Cheers!

-- http://picasaweb.google.ca/dpoisson

View Randy_ATX's profile

Randy_ATX

673 posts in 1079 days


#13 posted 12-05-2012 at 11:58 AM

I’m pretty sure acetone dries much faster than mineral spirits, but I don’t want to comment much more than that. I am sure there are others with more experience that can give more insight on this.

-- Randy -- Austin, TX by way of Northwest (Woodville), OH

View MontanaBob's profile

MontanaBob

419 posts in 1321 days


#14 posted 12-05-2012 at 12:20 PM

I use Bedrock glass bedding for any kind of stock work…This is the stuff used for bedding a barrel to make your rifle more accurate….I would use small dowels, or rough up or even drill small holes in the two pieces that are going to glued together…, and either mix some dust with it or if you get the Bedrock, it comes with colors to mix with it. The only down side is it takes at least 24 hrs to dry, but it will last, water, oil, heat, cold, won’t bother this stuff…...Look forward to seeing the finished stock…

-- To realize our true destiny, we must be guided not by a myth from our past, but by a vision of our future

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