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Forum topic by moke posted 11-21-2012 09:54 PM 605 views 1 time favorited 11 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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moke

499 posts in 1434 days


11-21-2012 09:54 PM

This maybe a simple question, but can I use a water based poly finish and follow it up with an oil based after 48 hours of cure time? I have a hard time not getting orange peel from the waterborn and I don’t know why, but the oil based poly is fine. (Sprayed through an Earlex)
Thanks
Mike


11 replies so far

View killerb's profile

killerb

150 posts in 1056 days


#1 posted 11-21-2012 10:20 PM

Mike, are you going over an oil stain with waterbase top coats? If so, it has to be very dry firat. 24 hours or more. That could cause your orange peel issue. I try and let any oil base product dry 24 hours, most are 48 hours. I then top coat with general finishes water base products. Never had a problem and there is no need to cover with oil base over that. bob

-- Bob www.bobkloes.com

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a1Jim

112104 posts in 2235 days


#2 posted 11-21-2012 10:36 PM

Mike are you getting fish eye or orange peel ? I’m a little confused why your using both Oil and waterborn combo’s
If it’s fish eyes you have a contamination problem if its orange peel it could be just putting on to heavy a coat when you spray and you need to do more coats instead of trying one or two heavy coats.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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moke

499 posts in 1434 days


#3 posted 11-21-2012 11:01 PM

Sorry, I reread my post and it was not very clear. I already have two coats of water based poly on it, I shot on Sunday, and it has a little orange peel….at least not as smooth as I would have liked. I was thinking I might shoot some oil based poly over that. I get a great finish from oil based but it is a PITA to clean the gun, but at this point I don’t care. I was just trying to be lazy by shooting waterbased.!!!!

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a1Jim

112104 posts in 2235 days


#4 posted 11-21-2012 11:16 PM

All you need to do is sand the orange peal back and re-coat assuming your in the time period you can re-coat. Even putting another coat of oil base you would have to sand the orange peal back. Maybe start with some 150 and work your way up to 400 before putting another coat on. I would take as little off as possible.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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moke

499 posts in 1434 days


#5 posted 11-21-2012 11:21 PM

Awesome…I was afraid of some strange “reaction” putting oil over water poly….Thank You

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a1Jim

112104 posts in 2235 days


#6 posted 11-21-2012 11:27 PM

Sorry I meant to recoat with waterborn

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112104 posts in 2235 days


#7 posted 11-21-2012 11:37 PM

Ok Mike
I know one way you can add the two finishes together but if I remember right you don’t put oil over waterbase but you can put water base over oil. The one way I know will work is if you add a coat of dewaxed shellac in between.
Since I don’t normally mix the types of finishes I use I forgot the which is which.
To play it safe shoot Charles Neil and email, he’s always glad to help.
charles@charlesneilwoodworking.com

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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AandCstyle

1325 posts in 915 days


#8 posted 11-21-2012 11:42 PM

I definitely would not use oil on top of water without shellac between them. It is prudent to use a coat, maybe 2, of de-waxed shellac between water and oil finishes.

The water based poly may be drying too fast causing the orange peel. What is your relative humidity and temp? Try reducing the fan pattern or increasing the fluid slightly, but try to keep each coat <5mils. Maybe reduce the air flow at the gun a little? Let us know how this works for you. HTH

-- Art

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2197 posts in 2204 days


#9 posted 11-22-2012 12:58 AM

I won’t venture to claim to know your issues and have the answer but I do have some experience and so I will try to take a stab at this.

We used to use an Earlex 5000. I recall having issues related to orange peel in my finish. I was very inexperienced when we used the Earlex so much of our problem was probably due to ignorance. I do believe the reason your getting the orange peel is due to lack of proper atomization of your material. We use a compressor and gravity feed gun that is made by Woodriver from Woodcraft. With our situation, we can achieve proper atomization through a combination of finding the most effective air pressure and the proper thinning required for our gun. The one thing I recall not liking about the Earlex was that I could not make any adjustment with the air flow. But Earlex offers a few different sizes for your needles you might experiment with and also thinning your material needs to be just right so that your gun/needle can properly atomize the product. You will probably just need to practice and experiment with the things you have control over such as thinning your material, adjusting your gun’s fluid control.

And I am not sure that spraying another coat over your existing coats will correct the orange peel no matter what product you utilize. I believe the orange peel can be improved by doing some sanding and applying a couple more coats.

We use a process that involves spraying lacquer that we do over and over and it works very well for us. I am pretty sure the Earlex can spray either product fairly well, you just might need to practice while making minor adjustments here and there.

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View moke's profile

moke

499 posts in 1434 days


#10 posted 11-23-2012 06:48 PM

Thank you for all the help, I had planned to sand it until my fingers bled, I think I am going to abandon the earlex and maybe try a spray can or something…I definitely do not want to experiment any more until I get through this project.

Thanks again for taking the time to help me.
Mike

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1459 posts in 1019 days


#11 posted 11-24-2012 01:42 AM

Waterbornes are great finishes. Spend your energy learning how to apply them correctly, rather than looking for a way to correct your mistakes the wrong way.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

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