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Hosed? - Jet Tools 2hp DC-1200VX-CK1 Vortex Dust Collector

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Forum topic by Willdoc posted 619 days ago 2017 views 1 time favorited 6 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Willdoc

32 posts in 653 days


619 days ago

I’m pondering the best route for small shop, one machine at a time, mobile dust collection. To that end, I’ve read many of the reviews and discussions here, as well as Thien’s information, and B. Pentz’s informative site.
I had planned on a cheap-ish mobile 2hp unit, adding a wynn filter, and making a larger version of a Thien seperator. I was planning to take 6” duct just 6 to 8 feet to a gradual transition to 4” at my machines. (I don’t really know whether, with a run that short, it makes any difference whether I run 6” duct to a 4” port, or just run 4” duct.)
Anyway, I continue to fret a bit about those 4” ports on everything made for the home shop. I know they’ll get the big stuff, but Pentz data certainly suggests we can’t get enough air through the 4” hole to get all (most?) of the dangerous small dust. At first, I thought he might just mean 4” pipe networks, but no, he’s pretty specifically indicating that large holes must be created in our beautiful machines. I don’t know that I can get myself to puncture a Sawstop. (I can’t.)
All that is a preamble to note that the Jet Vortex collectors, at first blush, seemed like a good idea. Great! I don’t have to spend the time building the baffle. Sure, the chips would still hit the impeller, but the filter clogging nightmare would be reduced. The Jet Vortex line, has 6” intakes (or two 4’s from a wye.)
Then, I noticed that the flex tube between the motor/impeller to the cannister/bag looked a bit smaller than it should. Maybe it was just an illusion from the images. Nope – I checked the manual, the tube is 5”.
If I run 6” duct work off this machine, and its pushing the air through 5” flex hose—isn’t there a problem there?
Wouldn’t this be similar to hooking up 5 or 6 inch ductwork to a 4” intake? Now, I know the listed 1100 cfm for this machine is not practically useful in that it is measured right at the intake with no “load” and no gunk in the filter. However, I’m thinking maybe that 5” flex tube connection is a bigger problem in that it puts me in the position of trying suck through 6 by pushing through 5. Is that worse? Maybe I’ll be so close that it just won’t matter… not sure. Alright, engineers, fire away—

-- I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ** Thomas Jefferson


6 replies so far

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11638 posts in 2287 days


#1 posted 619 days ago

My shop is small …it’s only part of my basement.
I’ve been doing the hose to machine thing for too many years out of necessity.
I have the JET DC and haven’t had any problems just using the 4” flex hose that is readily available everywhere.
All of my equipment is on wheels so I roll what I need into place , perform the function and move onto the next machine.
My DC sits in a corner of my shop with a short length of flex attached to my chip separator and then the remainder of the hose runs toward my work area and I add more hose if necessary to reach other machines. It’s only a hobby for me , so time doesn’t matter too much , usually, as I move the hose to different machines. : )

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View Willdoc's profile

Willdoc

32 posts in 653 days


#2 posted 619 days ago

Well, Dusty, you seem to be still living….. any significant cough? sputum production? Do you squeak when you sleep? Do people call you “woody?”

Aside from the specifics of pulling through 6” and pushing through 5”—- I am interested whether that’s a poor design and why——anyway, aside from that, yes, I’m wondering whether my hobby method of moving a 2 hp thien seperated machine with 0.5 or 1 micron canister to within 6 to 8 ft of my 4” port machine will work properly, and does it matter then if it is 6” duct or not, or whether I cut 6” ports in my pretty tools.
By “matter”, I mean, will my fine dust collection by dangerously poor under any of those conditions?

-- I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them ** Thomas Jefferson

View Craftsman on the lake's profile

Craftsman on the lake

2364 posts in 2036 days


#3 posted 619 days ago

I have a Delta 1 1/2 hp collector. I’ve decided in the spring I’m going to do this.

1. Redo the piping with pvc and get rid of the ribbed flexible stuff.
2. Add a thein filter before the collector. If neither cloth bag fills up it should vac better.
3. Locate the collector in the garage. (I’ve got a garrison shop over the car garage beneath.) This will get any dust that isn’t filtered out of my shop and if the thein filter works good I shouldn’t have to empty the collector bag much.

-- The smell of wood, coffee in the cup, the wife let's me do my thing, the lake is peaceful.

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11638 posts in 2287 days


#4 posted 619 days ago

I think you’ll find that the micro-dust comes from sanding for the most part.
I have three dust filters running in my shop , and the DC filters down to either 1 or 2 microns so things are pretty good overall. ; )
As for the 6” deal , I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. How much wood do you plan on milling at one time with one machine , one person ? I’ve yet to choke the 4” hose with shavings or sawdust on my machine. I suppose if I had one machine to alter , it would be by making an overhead blade shroud / dust collector on my tablesaw.

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View crank49's profile

crank49

3338 posts in 1570 days


#5 posted 619 days ago

Most of the small bag collectors with 1-1/2 to 2 hp fans, like the Jet, Rikon, JDS, Grizzly, HF, Delta, PM, Laguna, etc., etc., have 5” hose between the fan and the filter. At least half of those I just mentioned are the same collector with differing paint jobs. And, the fan inlet is actually 5” with a wye on it that allows two 4” hoses to be connected.

You can easily and quickly determine what is balanced by comparing the square of the diameter of the pipes. It takes four 2” pipes to equal the area of a single 4” pipe for instance. Because 2” squared is 4. And 4” squared is 16. Then you can see that 4 goes into 16 four times.

Since the fan inlet is 5” that is 25. To balance that you can connect a 4” pipe (square is 16) and a 3” pipe (square is 9). So, 9 + 16 = 25. This is balanced.

What does all this mean. Well, the 6” pipe you mentioned would be a 36 when squared. If you connect that to a 4” pipe you are feeding 16 into 36. That’s more than a 2:1 difference. Not Good. The volume of air is not going to change much but the velocity will change drastically. If you had dust and chips flowing through that 4” pipe at 4500 feet per minute (a typical speed that will keep everything moving) and then it expands into a 6” pipe, the velocity will drop by the ratio of the squares. The ratio is 36 / 16 = 2.25 So your dust and chips speed drops to 4500 / 2.25 = 2000 feet per minute. A speed where the heavy chips will drop out of the air stream and clump up in the bottom of the pipe.

-- Michael :-{| “If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.” ― A H

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Dusty56

11638 posts in 2287 days


#6 posted 619 days ago

That sums it up nicely , crank : ) Thank you !

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

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