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Forum topic by Mark Shymanski posted 11-10-2012 08:02 PM 2452 views 1 time favorited 51 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


11-10-2012 08:02 PM

Topic tags/keywords: boat building wooden boats boat plans question

I was going to just private message shipwright directly but then I thought it would be interesting what other Jocks would have to say…

Paul,

I’ve just reread your blog “The Smaug blog” and looking at many of your other projects and really appreciate the wealth of information you’ve shared. I am hopeful that I can impose on your generosity a bit more. My family and I really enjoy fishing but can’t afford to be anything other than shore fishers. But then I look at all the amazing wooden boat sites out there and even looked at some of the pricing for materials to get a ball park budget. According to the schedule on one site I think I could build a row/sailboat for about $3 000 and this maybe isn’t out of the realm of a possible budget for my family. I guess where my imposing on you generosity comes in is that I’d like your advice on the reality of someone with some skill but a lot of motivation being 1) able to build a real boat 2) are the many web site plans actually useful. I’ve been looking at various web pages (thanks for the links in some of your blogs) and am amazed and bewildered by the variety. Which boat would be suitable for a family to build, launch and use for freshwater fishing on the many Manitoba lakes some small but possible ones like Lake Manitoba or Winnipeg as well? I am hopeful that this boat can be a chance for my family to build something together but also hope that the kids will have a legacy to enjoy for many years to come.

I’ve enormously enjoyed your workbench build; the wedge vice you built is ingenious.

Thank you,

Mark

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2


51 replies so far

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Napaman

5346 posts in 2743 days


#1 posted 11-10-2012 08:12 PM

Wow…I cant wait to see this discussion…I will add my two cents later…was just coming on to do a quick e-mail check when I saw this…I will add some links and thoughts…

I would say three things to get started:
1) really think about your goals…and what do you really want to do with the boat…you mention fishing and family…does that expand to overnight trips? motor? sail?
2) Get in some boats. I did not do this…I just went off the net…and I am happy…but maybe if I had gotten down to yacht club and talked to some people—I may have gone in another direction.
3) Consider small to large…I started my PDR after I ran into a guy who was launching his 14th BOAT build…and he made me really think about wishing I had gone with a smaller boat (then my weekender) to build real quick…this was before I had heard of a PDR…a month later SCA (Small Craft Advisory Magazine—great magazine) did a feature on the PDR…so I started it! Now I have NEITHER done, LOL. But they say—with some help you can do this boat in a weekend or two—-so it could be a fun one to start with, learn on…and then give you more time to find the right plans/boat for the bigger plans.

Ok…I got going more then I meant to…LOL…

I will be following this post…

Matt

-- Matt--Proud LJ since 2007

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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#2 posted 11-10-2012 09:02 PM

Thanks Matt. Following your build and the realities of time commitments is part of why I asked these questions. I’ve looked at a couple of build ‘em in a weekend’ and thought should I start with something that small to cut my sailing teeth on? But then I look at them again and think this is just a butt ugly collection of plywood…do I really want to invest time and money in it? A big part of the build is a way to spend time together as a family, so in some ways a longer build time is a good thing. The boat should be big enough for 4 people, sure the kids are small (7 and 9) now but that changes daily!

There a couple of lakes just south of us where we’ll probably first star learning to sail (Max Lake and William Lake) . Getting someone to teach us to sail is a good idea, I’ll have to ask around to see if anybody does sail around here. Most folk rely on gas to move their boats, I really want to use rowing or sailing. Maybe its the hand tool/power tool thing scaled up a bit :-)

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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David Kirtley

1281 posts in 1663 days


#3 posted 11-10-2012 09:06 PM

First place to look for all that is home built boat info is Duckworks Magazine. It is the major hub of boat building.

There are many designs suitable for first time builders and there is a large support group through different forums to help you along.

Without getting into the politics of the PDR world, I really recommend a first set of plans to look at would be Michael Storer’s Oz Racer plans. That would be the best inexpensive place to look at a general primer on plywood and fiberglass boat building. Since you mention a family, a PDR will not suit but a Goose might. A little more upscale and probably the most elegant (in my opinion) would be a Goat Island Skiff. It is a high performance sailing boat that is just disguised as a traditional skiff. You are not going to find anything that will have as much boat with less materials. Very few parts. Not unimportantly, very light and easy to manage when not in the water.

In the larger family type boats, B&B boat designs Core Sound 17 (He has many other designs as well) is a lovely boat that is also available as a CNC pre-cut kit. Don’t forget to look at John Welsford’s designs as well. Some of the more unconventional designs of Phil Bolger are worth looking at as well. Many are still available. I don’t know why Jaques Mertans (bateau.com) designs are not more popular but some of them I thing are quite nice. Also some of the older standards such as Selway-Fisher. Francois Vivier has some drop dead gorgeous designs as well. Ross Lillistone has some really cool designs as well. More in the unconventional line of Phil Bolger, Jim Michalak has some that would be a blast to build.

From what I have experienced, the published plans are well worth the cost. They are not just a set of offsets. They have a huge amount of building information included. Most will be available to help you out by email (and sometimes by phone) to help you if you get stuck or something is unclear. It is a small percentage of the overall cost and worth every penny.

There are some free designs available but they vary in completeness and documentation quality. There are some real nice ones if you can read Polish. :) Most don’t have enough information for first time builders. Gavin Atkins would be the best place to start in the free plans.

That should keep you busy for a while.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

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shipwright

5003 posts in 1463 days


#4 posted 11-10-2012 09:40 PM

Hi Mark,

First of all…. Anyone with any woodworking skills at all can build a simple boat. I’m not much of an expert on that end of the spectrum but I know who is. Check out this site written by a good friend of mine , Michael Bogoger.
http://dory-man.blogspot.com/ His is the world of small boats and the links and information on his site will give you far more information than I ever could.
Just one example of a link to be found there is this one on Joel Bergen’s Welsford Navigator, Ellie. http://navigatorjoel.blogspot.com/2012/07/sucia-2012-day-1.html Joel is another friend who knows lots about the smaller end of boat building. These sites will introduce you to a broad culture of home builder boaters who embody all that there is to love about boats and boat building.
They are the true spirit of boat building like the amateur sports teams are to their sports. I’m more like the pros who have done so much of it that the wonder is somewhat gone.

That said, I’ll always be here to answer questions and help any way I can.

Good luck, and do PM me if you want.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#5 posted 11-11-2012 07:15 AM

Thanks David for the info…now my search has gotten even wider LOL! The Oz Racers do seem to be more straightforward to build. I watched a number of videos on the GIS, it is a nice looking boat, I’m going to have to explore those a little more.

I think I need to start compiling a list of all the different styles and such to try and figure out what I am looking for. Do you think the 3 000 range is doable, or is that an impractical number?

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#6 posted 11-11-2012 07:30 AM

Hello Paul,
Thank you for your response I really appreciate the analogy of the athlete versus the amateur. Thank you for the encouragement about anyone with woodworking skills being able to build a boat, yours and David’s comments are encouraging. In wandering around Michael and Joel’s blog their passion for these small craft is easily seen.

You mentioned in the Smaug blog that you may do a blog on stitch and glue, did you do one… I guess I should check your blogs before I ask that question.

It was good to see your ‘Friendship’ in one of the photos.

After looking at some of the sites David mentioned above and looking at the blogs you mentioned. It seems like CLC’s Skerry or the Goat Island Skiff are about the size I am looking for. I will have to check more into as dories as well.

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1281 posts in 1663 days


#7 posted 11-11-2012 02:10 PM

The GIS is quite doable at 3K. There is not that much material there. He has focused on starting out with a boat and taking out everything that you don’t need. You are under a thousand with the ply. He doesn’t recommend a lot of glass. You can even start out with a poly tarp sail (or even stay with them.)

There are a lot of build logs with pics and such on his forum on http://www.woodworkforums.com/f169/

The Skerry is a nice boat. I do think it is a lot more complicated build than the GIS. If you want to learn about building that style of stitch and glue, be sure to watch Warren Messer’s videos on Youtube. Here is a playlist for one build I kept so I could follow it in sequence:
!!

The only reason I didn’t put his stuff on the list before was he tends to design smaller boats.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

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shipwright

5003 posts in 1463 days


#8 posted 11-11-2012 03:23 PM

The stitch and glue blog is the last in the “Shipyard Memories” series. Smaug was just the carvel plank part. there are also segments on cold molding and framed plywood construction.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View Dan Lyke's profile

Dan Lyke

1474 posts in 2791 days


#9 posted 11-11-2012 04:39 PM

We built a Summer Breeze 12' long sailboat this spring, took us 5 weekends, if we’d gone painted inside and out we could have gone with fir or pine over redwood and saved a few more bucks over the few hundred it cost us (and maybe even gone in the water faster).

Plywood dories and skiffs are easy to build. From your profile picture, that boat with just a hair more sideboard in the stern would probably hold your kids too for a year or two. And when they outgrow it, you and they can build a one-sheeter (or two-sheeter like the Summer Breeze) of their own.

I’m looking forward to a few years out when we can build something bigger, trailerable rather than car-toppable, that we can take a few friends out on. But as a way to learn boat building, the critical aspects of design and modification of sailing rigs, and a way to get on the water quickly, this project was fantastic and I highly recommend it.

-- Dan Lyke, Petaluma California, http://www.flutterby.net/User:DanLyke

View TeamTurpin's profile

TeamTurpin

85 posts in 727 days


#10 posted 11-11-2012 05:05 PM

I’ve built two boats now. The photo below shows my last project, a B&B Lapwing.

Boat building can be a real challenge. Everying is curved. If you want to pursue boat building, Duckworks is a very good place to start. Actually, here’s the Duckworks article on the construction of the boat shown below: Article.

Based on what I’ve learned, here’s my unsolicited advice. Pick a path. There is traditional boat building and there is more modern composite/stitch-and-glue construction. There will, of course, be cross-over, but those are the two basic schools out there. Both are rewarding and result in fine boats. But if you want an easy first project, you need to find a plan set that matches that choice. There are some who want a fun project and select a hundred-year-old design that requires meticulous nautical joinery. You need to know what you’re signing up for. But, there are hundreds of great boat plans out there and buying/studying plans is half the fun.

-- http://www.teamturpin.org/house/shop.htm

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poopiekat

3639 posts in 2400 days


#11 posted 11-11-2012 08:16 PM

Hey, Mark,
I’ve gotten the bug to build my own boat, and it always was when I had little or no shop space to build it in, and that darn Glen-L catalog would seem to arrive at the least opportune times..: http://www.glen-l.com/boat-plans-catalog-300-boats-you-can-build/

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

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skipj

72 posts in 938 days


#12 posted 11-12-2012 04:00 PM

A while back Norm (New yanke woodshop) built a small sail boat. You might do a search for it.

View Mark Shymanski's profile

Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#13 posted 11-13-2012 04:34 AM

Hello David,

Some very interesting videos, and a good site. I find myself reading more on these websites than here at LJ’s lately as there is a whole world of woodworking that I was unaware of until I started following some of the links posted here. I am going to have to view more of Warren’s videos so I have a better idea how to proceed, thanks for the links.

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#14 posted 11-13-2012 04:38 AM

Hello Paul,
Thank you for the link to the last portion of your blog. Is that about the upper size limit for a stitch and glue? I found myself thinking how cool it would have been for you to have been video taping those build and then doing an excellant blog on the projects.

Mark

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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Mark Shymanski

5113 posts in 2378 days


#15 posted 11-13-2012 04:57 AM

Hello Dan,

The Summer Breeze looks like another! good candidate. When you say you were shipping water beside the transom does that mean that corner of the boat was that low in the water, or we’re waves overtopping it?

Mark

-- "Checking for square? What madness is this! The cabinet is square because I will it to be so!" Jeremy Greiner LJ Topic#20953 2011 Feb 2

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