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Forum topic by dakremer posted 527 days ago 830 views 0 times favorited 34 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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dakremer

2409 posts in 1592 days


527 days ago

I’m making an indoor dog house. My dog likes to sleep under things (tables, beds, etc) but he has no place to do that in our new place. This will double as a side table and his new “house.”

I am using the two products you see here…..

The Rust-Oleum stain says to use Poly as a top coat…..so i did

It also says that you can put the poly on as soon as 1 hour after you apply the stain – this i did NOT do. I waited two days to put the poly on the top of it…here are the results

the poly was also turning brown (picking up the stain) in my bowl. It seemed like the Poly was smearing around the stain on top of my dog house. Which essentially ruined it.

What is going on here???? any suggestions?

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!


34 replies so far

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dakremer

2409 posts in 1592 days


#1 posted 527 days ago

I should tell you I applied the Poly with a brush instead of a cloth….will that make a difference? Maybe I put too much poly on at once?

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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superstretch

1482 posts in 1194 days


#2 posted 527 days ago

I couldn’t say for sure, but whenever I used to stain, the first coat or two of poly always seemed to lift the stain. Are they both oil based?

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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dakremer

2409 posts in 1592 days


#3 posted 527 days ago

I would imagine….since the stain actually says to use poly as a top coat…

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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jim C

1449 posts in 1599 days


#4 posted 527 days ago

I recently switched to minwax polycrilic (water based) poly gloss and couldn’t be happier.
I used the spray can. Dries fast, no oder and smooth like glass.

-- When I was a boy, I was told "anyone can be President", now I'm beginning to believe it!

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DaleM

864 posts in 1884 days


#5 posted 527 days ago

It looks like you drug the brush over the edge a lot. The problem is that wipe-on finishes are thinned more than would be needed for brushing or spraying, which means more solvents. The solvents also dissolved your stain which it sounds like you already figured out. I have put that same poly over dark stain before (MW Dark Walnut) but you can’t rub it around at all, with a brush or cloth. You have to wipe across the surface once, quickly in each area without a lot of overlap. If you miss something, get it on the next coat after the first coat has dried. Also go fairly quickly on the second coat. When you are sure you have all the stain covered, you could then begin sanding between layers after that coat. Anytime you wipe it on somewhere, let it sit for even a few seconds and wipe over it again, you risk removing some of the stain which has been dissolved by the solvents. Now that the lighter spots are essentially sealed with poly and won’t take stain, I would suggest scraping or sanding to the bare wood again. Don’t worry about getting down in the deep grain on that red oak, just sand the surface and restain. Letting the stain dry longer like you did is actually a good thing so it could dry better unless you are spraying on a finish.

-- Dale Manning, Carthage, NY

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Swyftfeet

169 posts in 672 days


#6 posted 527 days ago

http://rustoleum.com/CBGResourceCenter.asp?sn=ms2&msdstyp=PROCBG&msdsprc=532

Petroleum based….

I’m guessing you rubbed the stain off the corners, wipe on varnish is thinned down so it basically acted as a cleaner for the wood. How to fix is beyond me. I’ll be interested in what the guys say.

-- Brian

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superstretch

1482 posts in 1194 days


#7 posted 527 days ago

EDIT: What Dale said

-- Dan, Rochester, NY

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a1Jim

109273 posts in 2078 days


#8 posted 527 days ago

you can tell if they are oil base by what it says to use to clean up with on the cans. My guess is that the are the same base and that the poly is lifting the first coat. I would allow it to dry a couple more days and then coat it with dewazed shellac to seal off your first coats and then re coat with poly.

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Wildwood

854 posts in 635 days


#9 posted 527 days ago

Agree with what Dale is telling you.
Nott a big fan of either Minwax’s wipe-oil or waterborne poly. Oil based is 70-75% mineral spirits. I do not care for either oil or waterborne Minwax just cannot get a build up of finish with them. Shake can before use vice stir should be a warning sign.

Unless you want a wash coat of film finish never exceed 50% solvent. I have better luck making my own wiping varnish-poly and normally start off with 50-50 mix. If want a faster build increase ratio of finish to solvent.

-- Bill

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1659 days


#10 posted 527 days ago

The solvent for the poly is mineral spirits. Solvent for the stain is also mineral spirits. Thus, you activated the pigments in the stain and wiped them right off the board. Stains don’t cure…they dry and can be removed by a solvent…in this case the solvent is in the poly.

You should seal with dewaxed shellac between the stain and poly. You could also use a water-borne finish or lacquer instead of the oil-based poly. But I’d still seal with shellac in between to guarantee adhesion.

Or, if you spray on the first coat of poly very lightly, you can keep the stain on the board. It’s the wiping that causes the issue.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Jim Jakosh's profile

Jim Jakosh

10231 posts in 1606 days


#11 posted 527 days ago

Hi Doug,
I have never seen it take off stain so cleanly unless there was glue on the surface and the stain would not adhere. But, this would be evident as soon as you wiped the stain.
Did you apply the stain and then wipe it after about 15 minutes? Was there any clean areas like that after the wiping?

I’d sand it and stain that area again and wipe it to make sure it took. Wait a day and recoat it with the poly.
You’ll be fine!!
......................Jim

ps I take it you are not talking about the streaking in the top that is caused by the tight and loose side of the veneer or boards absorbing stain differently.

-- Jim Jakosh.....Practical Wood Products...........Learn something new every day!!

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dakremer

2409 posts in 1592 days


#12 posted 527 days ago

Jim – the stain went on really nice. No marks like that (by the edge) until i put on the poly

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1659 days


#13 posted 527 days ago

BTW, when you wipe or brush on the finish, we quite naturally bring more pressure to the edge of the work as we go off the board because we are trying to feel the end of the stroke. That’s why there is more taken off that edge as opposed to the perpendicular edge. This is especially true if you tilt the brush coming off the edge in an effort to keep the brush on the piece longer. It is a natural instinct that does not work in our favor here.

Similarly, because of that action, more finish builds up right there as it goes off the edge…squeezed out of the brush. And the problem is compounded if you aren’t careful with how you remove that excess finish.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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dakremer

2409 posts in 1592 days


#14 posted 527 days ago

that makes sense…

so what i’m getting from all of this…..dont use a poly over a stain if they both have the same solvent? and if you want to, put lacquer between them?

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

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Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1659 days


#15 posted 527 days ago

I wouldn’t put lacquer in between…you’d use it instead of the poly in that scenario. If you use the poly, use shellac in between. It universally works between pretty much anything. I like the Zinsser Sealcoat for this job.

Most stains have pigment, like paint, and those pigments stay largely atop the wood (some gets in the pores) especially if you prep the wood to finer sanding grits. Rubbing them with a topcoat that uses the same solvent will almost always come up on the rag. If you don’t believe me, use a white rag to wipe on the poly over the stain.

You just can’t follow the directions on most cans, unfortunately.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

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