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Forum topic by markedwardsims posted 637 days ago 1227 views 0 times favorited 33 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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markedwardsims

50 posts in 1288 days


637 days ago

Hello all, I just moved into a new house with a 2 car garage. I’m very excited about the additional space over the old single car space.

I plan on doing it right this time, so I bought a Delta 50-850 1-1/2 hp dust collector, second hand. I had a project come up before getting the new wiring run, so I plugged the dust collector and Jet mini lathe into an outlet that has a 15 amp breaker. They ran great together for a couple of hours, then the dust collector started popping the breaker. Since the turnaround on this project is tight, I kept going without the DC. I was sanding the last piece when all of a sudden the lathe speed reduced significantly. I felt the motor and it was really hot. I was hoping it was just over heated so I let it cool down for a couple of hours. When I fired it back up, it started slow, came up the full speed, then slowed back down.

I tried to run an extension cord to an outlet on a different 15 amp circuit and got the same results. I looked and the dust collector pulls 10 amps, and I’m not sure about the lathe. I tested out the drill press and it seems to work fine.

If anyone has any trouble shooting advice or wisdom, I would be most appreciative.

Thanks,
mark


33 replies so far

View hhhopks's profile

hhhopks

558 posts in 972 days


#1 posted 637 days ago

I say your lathe’s motor is on its way out.
Sorry.

You have already done the basic test of isolating the problem.
It all points to the lathe.

Can you turn the lathe by hand and turns like it normally does?
Remove the belt and spin the lathe. Does it feel the same?
Can you run the motor without the belt?
There may be bearing issue on the lathe.

Hopefully, someone else can give you some hope.

-- I'll be a woodworker when I grow up. HHHOPKS

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BentheViking

1746 posts in 1159 days


#2 posted 637 days ago

Do you have a 20A circuit to try the lathe on?

-- It's made of wood. Real sturdy.--Chubbs Peterson

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markedwardsims

50 posts in 1288 days


#3 posted 637 days ago

Unfortunately I only have 15A circuits available until I wire up the garage. I thought about dropping a 20a breaker in, but it’s only got 12 gauge wire so that could be dangerous. I guess I need to expedite the garage wiring project. I’ve been looking for sources for replacement motors, and ran across some posts about the run capacitor being a possibility for this type of issue. I took the cover off and that cap smelled like burned electronics. Maybe I’ll get lucky on this one. I figure it’s worth the $5 try before looking at a new motor. I forgot to mention that this one is one of the old blue ones, donuts got some mileage.

View teejk's profile

teejk

1206 posts in 1280 days


#4 posted 637 days ago

12ga wire is good for 20a.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1110 days


#5 posted 637 days ago

Boy, there are a lot of possible problems here.
Although No. 12 wire is good for 20 amps, before you run over and put in a 20 amp breaker, turn off the existing breaker and check the outlet to see if the wires are tight in the outlet. A lot of times, if a wire gets warm and cold it will expand and loosen the connection. This causes an amperage rise, and a voltage loss, which would explain why your lathe motor was running so hot and the breaker finally tripped. Also check the connections at the fusebox, if you think you can be safe going behind the safety panel cover.

The second thing is the length of the run. Lots of times, garages are either right where the breaker box is, or it may be on the other side of the house, which lowers the load capacity of the 12 gauge wire.

The bearing issue in the lathe is also in play, but I would think it would be noticable hot or cold, and might put out some sort of sound.

You said the DC tripped the breaker, but you indicated that they were both put into the same outlet, so how did you come to that conclusion? If you put it in separately, it then has to be the circuit, since it is doubtful that both the lathe and DC are going at the same time. And a drill press probably pulls a lot less amperage at a free spin, without any real load.

Just a few things to check out. Whenever I moved into a new house, I always dropped back the breakers, (especially on older houses), to 15 and 20 amps, until I knew everything was safe.
Remember, the one place where most fires occur is where the connections are made, outlets, switches, breaker and screw connections. That’s because they are the weak links in an otherwise solid copper run.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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Blackbear

76 posts in 814 days


#6 posted 637 days ago

How long is the wire run from the breaker? Although 12 ga wire is fine, if you have really long runs i’d use 10 ga to reduce voltage drop. Does power get to the garage from a cable from the main hookup in the house? Your motor may have been on the way out coincidentally but it wouldn’t hurt to check the voltage at your sockets (very carefully) with a volt meter just to be safe. A motor draws constant power, so if your voltage is below nominal the current draw will increase. More current=more heat in the windings and shorter life. Just another thing to rule out in your new workspace.

I hope you get lucky and can just replace the capacitor.

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markedwardsims

50 posts in 1288 days


#7 posted 637 days ago

Teejk and Tennessee, thanks for your input. I’ll definitely take a look at the outlets and make sure the wiring is good and tight. I already checked all of the connections in the panel, and the screws were all tight.

I actually tested out the lathe and DC independently, in 2 different outlets. The lathe would run, but was slow, and the DC would try to turn for a few seconds and then the breaker would pop. The capacitor in the lathe smelled really bad of burned electronics, so I ordered a couple of those to pick up this afternoon. It turns out the cap on the DC is the same, so maybe I’ll get lucky.

I happen to have a fancy surge protector that I use with my home theater stuff with a digital voltage readout. While plugged in and no load, it read 120v exactly. When the lathe was on it dropped to 110v, and when the DC was flipped on the voltage dropped to below 80 before the breaker blew, like Tennessee described.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1110 days


#8 posted 637 days ago

Wow, I hate to belabor this, but be very careful here. Your house most likely has single phase 220VAC arriving at the breaker box, two hots and one neutral, and you should also have a ground in the box, but maybe not if the breaker box is old. The breakers in a typical box, or even fuses, usually try to load up each hot leg equally so the 220VAC is used evenly.
If you saw 80 volts AC on that readout, that means there is a reasonable chance that whatever in the house is on that single hot leg of the 220VAC would have also dropped to 80VAC. If you had something like a refridgerator on that leg, it also saw 80VAC at the same time, even though it would be on a separate breaker UNLESS, a loose wire is arking somewhere in the outlet run you are using. Then your voltage loss is due to voltage trying to fly through a poor connection, causing a voltage loss and a amperage rise. You might start a fire 20 feet away in another outlet and not realize it. Check every outlet in that run first…

There could be a lot of outlets, depending on who did the wiring, state codes, people who wrongly added outlets etc. One loose outlet anywhere along the run will simulate the readouts you got. The loose wire does not have to be at those two outlets you are using.

And now, you also have the slght possibility that both units are bad. Actually, at this point that sounds like the best option, and possibly the cheapest and safest.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3042 posts in 1271 days


#9 posted 637 days ago

Aluminum wire in use?? That drops the current equal to using 1 gauge smaller than if using copper of the same gauge.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

1447 posts in 1110 days


#10 posted 637 days ago

Outstanding point, Grandpa…

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View markedwardsims's profile

markedwardsims

50 posts in 1288 days


#11 posted 637 days ago

Yes, great point. Fortunately, there is no aluminum wiring in the house. Sounds like I need to really check all of the outlets for tight wires. And… I need to expedite getting the garaged wired up. I’ve got several open spots in the panel, so I’d like to dedicate one or two spots to the garage.

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Grandpa

3042 posts in 1271 days


#12 posted 637 days ago

It is good there is no aluminum. It was used years ago and there is still a lot of it out there. You know, after the capacitor is tried if you still have a problem I am one that would take the tool to a motor shop if you have one. We have such a shop and they can tell you what is wrong with tools in a few minutes. The cost is nominal and they could tell you about how much to diagnose before they start.

Now for the electric service. Dropping to 80 volts is not a normal thing. This system sounds overloaded. The services of as good electrician is not terribly expensive either. That is quick and if the guy is good he can probably pinpoint the problem pretty quick.

View teejk's profile

teejk

1206 posts in 1280 days


#13 posted 637 days ago

that voltage drop on the DC is troubling…In my mind voltage should only drop with distance, not load (called “line loss” in the utility world). To drop to 80V would suggest wiring.

No aluminum in the house? (you are probably wrong there since it is used a lot if the panels/fixtures are built to handle it…e.g. my shop sub panel is wired from the house with aluminum as is the wire feeding the panel from the meter).

Just a guess but do you really have 12ga wire in the garage? No electrician I know would use 12ga wire and only put it on a 15a breaker (it would be allowed under code I think…rule used to be that one wire size higher (never lower) than the breaker was ok but why??? breaker size and cost are the same).

If your house was one of those development houses built from 1975-1995, I’d guess that you had a single outlet in the garage running 14ga wire and not on a GFI circuit…that’s what they did back then…saved them probably $100 or so to make workable space but they didn’t care…they were done and gone.

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markedwardsims

50 posts in 1288 days


#14 posted 637 days ago

Interesting. I know that all the leads that I could see in the panel were copper, but I very well could be wrong. The house was built in 1998, and the outlet that I was primarily trying was a GFI that the sprinkler box is plugged into. I’ll look at the wire a bit closer and try to determine the gauge. With all this discussion, it makes me feel like I should get a real electrician to take a look. I have a family friend who is an electrician, and I was going to get him to install the breaker and first box for the “shop” wiring. It sounds like it wold be money well spent to have him take a look at all the outlets as well.

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2057 days


#15 posted 636 days ago

Check the capacitor on the lathe motor

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

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