LumberJocks

Veneers, is there a maximum thickness before movement becomes a problem?

  • Advertise with us

« back to Woodworking Skill Share forum

Forum topic by 404 - Not Found posted 10-01-2012 11:08 PM 1272 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1657 days


10-01-2012 11:08 PM

This is for a landing 3/4 of the way up a staircase. The treads are 32mm (5/4) white oak, I am leaning towards making the landing as an oak – BB ply – oak construction – for stability. The oak veneers therefore need to be sturdy – (and to allow for refinishing as well). Does anyone know if increasing the thickness will present problems with wood movement of a heavier veneer?
I have two options – 4 oak – 24 BB ply – 4 oak or 7 oak – 18 BB ply – 4 oak

What would you guys do?


12 replies so far

View Operaman's profile

Operaman

134 posts in 2534 days


#1 posted 10-02-2012 12:03 AM

Absolutely there is a max thickness. For most woods it tends to be around 1/8” thick, depending on moisture content, cut of wood, species of wood, and environment in which it will live.

-- Cheers!

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5084 posts in 1485 days


#2 posted 10-02-2012 12:22 AM

Teak overlay decks on a salt water boat:
1/8” for epoxy, a little more for rubber type adhesives ( polyurethanes, poly-sulfides).
In a house the environment is much less severe of course.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View vipond33's profile

vipond33

1405 posts in 1185 days


#3 posted 10-03-2012 01:17 AM

I’d agree with the dimensions mentioned but would add that a cross band layer underneath helps stability and reduces cracking.
gene

-- gene@toronto.ontario.canada : dovetail free since '53, critiques always welcome.

View Operaman's profile

Operaman

134 posts in 2534 days


#4 posted 10-03-2012 02:04 AM

I just talked with one of the nation’s foremost experts in the veneer field (a studio furniture maker) who also happens to be a friend. He stated that cross bonding (which should be used) will only help if the material is less than an 1/8”. He says that the physics simply don’t work when you are trying to get a thickness greater than that to move less than 1% over its width unless you simply have dumb luck on your side. Oh sure you may get it to behave for 5 or 10 years but in his expert opinion, you are asking for trouble over the long haul.

-- Cheers!

View Operaman's profile

Operaman

134 posts in 2534 days


#5 posted 10-03-2012 02:08 AM

@vipond I do not want to appear confrontational. You are no amateur and I want to treat you, and your opinion, with the respect that a professional fine furniture maker deserves. I just simply don’t want someone that knows less than you or I do to get the idea that by cross bonding one can veneer something much greater than 1/8” and have it work in the long term. Cheers.

-- Cheers!

View Moron's profile

Moron

4666 posts in 2581 days


#6 posted 10-03-2012 03:05 AM

Vipond offers experienced advice and yes, you can use thicker veneers until you finally reach critical mass and invent a new laminated architectural truss but what would be the point ?

remember, u r fixing stairs and using oak (veneer or solid) and at some point, you r going to die and only need to outlive the stairs by what ever margin you choose cuz I think you are trying to make a “fugly” pretty again ?

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View vipond33's profile

vipond33

1405 posts in 1185 days


#7 posted 10-03-2012 03:07 AM

No offense taken as I was speaking of a nominal 1/8” thickness and simply recalling acres of the stuff used when I was making reproduction furniture. It was a combination shear layer and a masker of imperfections to us. In retrospect I wonder if a modern non brittle adhesive might not be best as Shipwright mentioned.
gene

-- gene@toronto.ontario.canada : dovetail free since '53, critiques always welcome.

View Moron's profile

Moron

4666 posts in 2581 days


#8 posted 10-03-2012 03:21 AM

if its a landing, then I assume the landing is separate from the stairs (seen a lot of “whacko” stair builders) then the stairs should have been built knowing what the finish thickness of the landing would be, as this affects rise and run of the stairs …….if one rise is different, from the first step up off the landing or down, people will trip or stumble

Making the landing out of BB ? Y ? That said, vipond’s point is perfect, just look at the edge of BB or any other plywood. It gives the veneer structural integrity and balance.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Moron's profile

Moron

4666 posts in 2581 days


#9 posted 10-03-2012 03:27 AM

Trying to glue down a 3’ x 3’ or what ever size, of a veneered floor out of oak that is 1/8” thick with any kind of adhesive, with tight joints, without a whole lot of experience and or skill set is possible….. : ))

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Operaman's profile

Operaman

134 posts in 2534 days


#10 posted 10-03-2012 03:48 AM

giggle

-- Cheers!

View 404 - Not Found's profile

404 - Not Found

2544 posts in 1657 days


#11 posted 10-03-2012 07:54 AM

I am no stranger to applying veneers – just wanted to check if it was written anywhere that thou shalt not use veneer over x/32” – I’ve been looking at flooring, the engineered stuff which is stuck down on plywood – comes with surface thicknesses from 3 – 7mm (well it does here anyway).
So thank you guys for your input, I know what I must do to get the job done. 1/8 or less it is.

View Operaman's profile

Operaman

134 posts in 2534 days


#12 posted 10-03-2012 01:14 PM

@renners. I agree with your sentiment. I detest that paper thin cut stuff. I do use it from time to time but I’m no fan.

-- Cheers!

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

GardenTenders.com :: gardening showcase