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Electrician Question: EDIT: 5 hp 19.5 amp Balder, can I use 12-2 and double pull 20 amp breaker

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Forum topic by Jerry posted 10-01-2012 01:52 AM 1020 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Jerry

2197 posts in 2214 days


10-01-2012 01:52 AM

I am now going to be in a pinch to get our 5 hp DC set up. I just sold our 2 hp Grizzly that has been our go to pillar for a long time now. I figured the sell of that DC would help offset some set up cost for the Delta Cyclone.

The DC will be set up in a 20X20 Storage next to our shop so will not be the main shop area at all.

So my primary questions surround:

1. I want to use the Long Ranger Multigate System: http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LRGATE5.html
But from what I have read the system runs a 3 hp DC and we have a 5 hp DC. Also I want to run 6” gates and the system seems to only have up to 5” gates.

So I am considering doing something on my own with 6” gates.

I am struggling with this some since I am not an electrician. Through some online research I have learned that I might be able to fabricate my own system using low voltage switches and wire and some type of control box with a relay, maybe a 12v over 220v relay. Most of this is foreign language to me. I plan to pay a visit to Grainger tomorrow to see if they can help me with this design.

Is this something I can do with some shop made blast gates made with melamine or do I need to purchase metal blast gates.

Any direction regarding this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Jerry

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net


21 replies so far

View thebigvise's profile

thebigvise

190 posts in 1568 days


#1 posted 10-01-2012 01:55 AM

I’d get a licensed electrician. It’s worth the money.

-- Paul, Clinton, NC

View Loren's profile

Loren

7627 posts in 2315 days


#2 posted 10-01-2012 02:14 AM

I’d buy it, hook it up and if it didn’t work, send it back.
My bet is it will work fine with your single phase DC.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2197 posts in 2214 days


#3 posted 10-01-2012 02:35 AM

Loren I’m thinking your right. For the price it is a very good value. For around 70.00 you get the main power unit, 100’of wire and one gate. Each extra gate is only an extra 17.00 or 18.00 or so. I can get the 5” gates and just reduce to 5” at my Eyes. Thanks.

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View Dez's profile

Dez

1114 posts in 2744 days


#4 posted 10-01-2012 03:49 AM

They have “6 blast gates and switches that you can add to the gate. why not use them and avoid necking down?

-- Folly ever comes cloaked in opportunity!

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1821 posts in 1160 days


#5 posted 10-01-2012 11:14 AM

What you want to do will work, but it will be some effort to set it up. The relay coil will be switched by the sensors you’ll have to install on the gates, that also means there will be low voltage wiring running from each gate to somewhere. Let me suggest: instead of the blast gate approach, use a similar relay, but one with a 120V coil. Then power that coil on/off with a cheap lamp switch remote ($10-$15). The gives you the advantage of a remote that once it fails, you put in another $10-$15 lamp switch and you’re up and running. The relays are fairly industrial strength and will last a very long time (true of the 12V coils as well). I have the lamp switch remote set up on my 5 HP DC, and have used it now for about 5 years. I’ve replaced the remote twice, but since I keep a spare in the shop it’s not a big deal. This setup is also cheaper than the purchased remotes (only slightly) but much longer lived. I used a LR for about 9 years before I dropped the remote once too often onto the concrete….they are very well made but I still like the relay better…..besides it handles much larger motors easily.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2197 posts in 2214 days


#6 posted 10-01-2012 12:16 PM

Thanks guys.

Des, thanks for the info. I did not know they sold the switches separately. That pretty much takes care of everything.

Thanks,

Jerry

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View toolie's profile

toolie

1764 posts in 1296 days


#7 posted 10-01-2012 05:09 PM

jerry ….... i’d go with the ivac pro units as shown here:

http://www.ivacswitch.com/default.action?itemid=57

the pro communicates wirelessly between the tools and DC units, and they also offer a relay (contactor) that will accomodate dust collectors larger than your 5hp. when the dust generating tool is activated, the DC is activated and their new blast gates also activate automatically. the reverse happens when the dust generating tool is deactivated.

i use the ivac switch and it does everything i ask it to do. the products, and more importantly, the people @ mbright, are absolutely first rate.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2197 posts in 2214 days


#8 posted 10-01-2012 11:11 PM

Toolie, thanks for that source. It sure looks great but I believe it is out of my current price range.

So I have another question: Where are some of the best locations online to purchase DC items. I am getting ready to purchase at www.pennstateind.com but want to comparison shop a little more for items such as Wye connectors and also flex hose.

Another question:

I am going to wire up the 5 hp 19.5 amp Baldor motor, am I ok to go with a 20 amp double pull and 12-2 wire?

Thanks for the assistance, Jerry

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View 47phord's profile

47phord

175 posts in 904 days


#9 posted 10-02-2012 12:36 AM

You would have to use 12-3 at a minimum, 220 uses two hot leads and a neutral. I would recommend going with 10-3 as 20A is the recommended upper limit on #12 wire and it’s always best to leave yourself some headroom. I’m guessing the circuit will be fused at something higher than 20A (hopefully) and you gotta run the wire based on that, not the load you will be putting on it.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1764 posts in 1296 days


#10 posted 10-02-2012 12:40 AM

regarding the wire size, a 20A circuit (either 110v or 220v), usually sized to 80% of capacity, would be right on the edge of its ability to support that motor. any electrician worth his salt would, i believe, counsel that a 30A circuit and 10-2 wire be used.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View TopamaxSurvivor's profile

TopamaxSurvivor

14798 posts in 2343 days


#11 posted 10-02-2012 01:31 AM

You need 10-2 and a 30 or maybe even a 40 map breaker to get it started.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

View Jerry's profile

Jerry

2197 posts in 2214 days


#12 posted 10-02-2012 02:00 AM

Gosh, thanks for all the good advice.

I am not an electrician and even I sort of felt 10-2 with 30 amp breaker. But at Home Depot the clerk was sure I needed the 20 amp breaker and 12-2 wire.

I want to be safe then sorry. I think going with the 10-2 with 30 amp might pose some minimal risk to burning motor up if any major resistance issues, which would cost me 400.00. But going 12-2 and 20 amp might worst case cause a fire and cost me far more then 400.00.

Is that pretty much what we are looking at? Thanks

-- Jerry Nettrour, San Antonio, www.topqualitycabinets.net

View Cole Tallerman's profile

Cole Tallerman

391 posts in 852 days


#13 posted 10-02-2012 02:24 AM

You can buy little switches for the long ranger system that can be mounted to any blast gate for like $3. Even though it says its for 3 hp dust collectors, as long as it has the same plug as a 3 hp dust collector (it should) then it should work fine.

View WoodNDust's profile

WoodNDust

181 posts in 773 days


#14 posted 10-02-2012 03:01 AM

When deciding what amp breaker to use, the right thing to do is to consult the spec sheet/manual for the dust collection system you purchased (or other power tool). They’ll tell you the minimum circuit requirements. After you know the breaker size then you determine the wire gauge from the breaker size, not the running amperage draw of the tool, which will be lower than the start amperage.

For example, I purchased the G0562Z 3 hp dust collector. The manual states the minimum circuit size is 20 amps. I know that a 20 amp circuit requires 12 gauge wire. There are charts to tell you how much current different wire sizes are capable of safely (following code) handling. So I need a 20 amp 220v circuit for my DC.

This also applies only if I have a dedicated circuit for this machine. Should I want to run two machines on one circuit, such as my table saw and dust collector, then I would need a larger circuit to handle the dual load.

View REO's profile

REO

615 posts in 741 days


#15 posted 10-02-2012 03:48 AM

not sure if you are talking about the wiring for the DC or the control circuit. The 5 hp DC will draw 28 amps on 220 volts. That would require #10 wire. The control Wiring for the Dc could be telephone wire as it only needs to carry the current to close the relay and the contacts of the relay take the current of the DC motor.

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