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New to spraying finish. (waterborne/waterbased)

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Forum topic by JSB posted 09-28-2012 04:10 AM 2932 views 2 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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JSB

713 posts in 824 days


09-28-2012 04:10 AM

Topic tags/keywords: finishing

Hello,
New sprayer here. I bought a $65 Campbell Hausfeld gravity fed 2 gun kit from Wal-Mart recently and so far have completed 2 projects with great results. I want to stay in the water based product line as I do not like the idea of buying chemicals to clean up when water is abundant. My first spray job was completed with Minwax Polycrylic. It turned out absolutely amazing, sprayed effortlessly, and cleaned up easily. The second project I completed today. It was sprayed with Minwax Oil Modified Water Based Poly. This seemed to spray a bit thicker. Same gun settings and same spraying techniques but I got a few runs on my first coat. Due to the large size of my projects and the incredible reduction in finishing time I do not see myself brushing a finish again unless I absolutely need to. A couple questions though…

1) I have very little knowledge of spray guns. Can I leave the gun loaded with whatever I am spraying inbetween coats or do I need to empty and clean out the gun? I have read some people leaving their spray guns loaded for an entire day and picking up where they left off. So far I have cleaned out the can and ran water through the gun in between every coat. Im not sure if it needs to be cleaned out during the same project but it only takes 15 minutes for a complete coat and cleaning.

2) Im looking for water based finish product suggestions. I like the fact that the Polycrylic dried super fast. The Waterbased poly went on a little thick for me. Is there a certain water based lacquer that someone would recommend? If I read correctly the lacquer would dry extremely fast, right? Again, sticking with something that cleans up with water.

3) Currently I clean out my shop after every completed project with a fan in the window and a shopvac blower. I do not make any sawdust until I am done finishing. I do keep the fan going as an exhaust fan during spraying. When spraying I use a disposable dust mask for ventilation as the fumes never get too bad. Is this enough or should I use a better mask? I dont want to sould like an idiot but like I said, Im new to spraying and as I see myself using it a lot more I do want to be safe.

Also, this lumberjocks community is amazing. A never ending amount of shared knowledge and info with wonderful people. So glad I stumbled upon this site :)

- Jay

-- Jay - http://www.jayscustomcreations.com or http://www.woodworkingwithsketchup.com


17 replies so far

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1323 days


#1 posted 09-28-2012 11:48 AM

Congrats on stepping into the world of spraying. :)

First, two book recommendations: Jeff Jewitt’s Spray finishing Made Simple and Andy Charron’s Spray Finishing are excellent reference books.

Now,
1. Yep, leaving the gun full between coats should present no problems. I do it all the time.
2. My favorite water borne finish is crystalac super premium or polyoxide. Super premium was designed for music instruments so it’s very durable once cured. Polyoxide is a bar/floor finish. You can get them at mcfeely’s who seems to always have $1 shipping. I’ve been using super premium for more than ayear now with excellent results.
3. Even with water bornes, you’ll want to protect your lungs. I use a 3m 7500 series mask with organic cartridge filter mask when spraying.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View mloy365's profile

mloy365

435 posts in 1876 days


#2 posted 09-28-2012 12:24 PM

I am in total agreement with NiteWalker.
1. Especially about the 3m mask. They come in three sizes and replacement carts are easy to get.
2. I also use Sherwin-Williams Kem Aqua finish. The upside is that it is $40/gal. Downside is it is only available in 5 gal pails. I would start with the Crystalac. Really good stuff.
3. Buy the books!

-- Mike - Northern Upper Michigan

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

1474 posts in 1003 days


#3 posted 09-28-2012 12:34 PM

You probably got runs because the second product was a little less viscous. Dial back on the fluid a little. It is better to use more thin coats than a few thick ones. They make a guage to measure thickness that you should be able to find at any good paint store for a couple bucks. Try to get a coat in the 2-4 mil range; that is usually safe.

I use Target Coatings products. I especially like the EM6000, but TC has a complete range of products.

As the others have suggested, get the books (Jeff’s has a good DVD included) and a decent mask.

-- Art

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1904 days


#4 posted 09-28-2012 01:07 PM

Welcome, Jay…from another jay!

The single best book on finishing you’ll ever read is Bob Flexner’s “Understanding Wood Finishing.” There are other good books, like the Jewitt(s), but nobody does a more comprehensive job of testing the techniques and debunking all the myths and bad marketing like Flexner.

My favorite waterborne finish to this point is the General Finishes Enduro-Var. Definitely give that a spin.

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 1010 days


#5 posted 09-28-2012 02:44 PM

Minimum get something like a 3M 7500-series mask with P100 filters on it. You’ll wonder why you ever even bothered with the disposable masks. I would not even bother with the 6000-series masks.

I can’t add any advice on spraying… these guys have you covered.

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1323 days


#6 posted 09-28-2012 06:19 PM

I have a 6000 series mask too and it’s regulated as my sanding mask now. The 7500 series makes a much better seal on your face and is a lot more comfortable.

Jay, flexner’s book is great, but isn’t dedicated to spray finishing like the others. Also mr flexner seems a bit biased against water borne finishes (at least in his book). It’s a great finishing book, not so much a great spraying book.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1378 posts in 929 days


#7 posted 09-28-2012 08:11 PM

+1 on the Target Coatings EM6000, which is a joy to spray (nitro-esque burn in!), and even better to clean up.

I didn’t have as much luck with their EM1000 clear sealer as a color vehicle. I got weird adhesion problems when spraying the EM6000 top coats, which lifted the toner from the under layers when it burned in. So I’m just tinting slightly thinned EM6000 now, and that works fine.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View Cosmicsniper's profile

Cosmicsniper

2199 posts in 1904 days


#8 posted 09-28-2012 08:25 PM

I would not disagree with those assessments, NW. But I certainly learned more about finishing, in general, from the Flexner.

BTW, I’ve been wanting to try out the Target Coatings for a while now. Thanks for the reminder, all!

-- jay, www.allaboutastro.com

View JSB's profile

JSB

713 posts in 824 days


#9 posted 09-29-2012 03:35 AM

Awesome responces folks. I believe I will be trying Targets EM6000 next. Another qustion…What type of sheen do you typically prefer? I always go with a clear gloss when finshing. Do most prefer flat or semi gloss? For those who have been finishing for years, Is there any advantages or disadvantages to each?
Thanks!
- Jay

-- Jay - http://www.jayscustomcreations.com or http://www.woodworkingwithsketchup.com

View shampeon's profile

shampeon

1378 posts in 929 days


#10 posted 09-29-2012 03:39 AM

I’ve always been taught that even if you’re going for a semi-gloss or flat look, you spray gloss for your build coats, and then finish off with a final coat of semi or flat.

-- ian | "You can't stop what's coming. It ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity."

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2710 posts in 1323 days


#11 posted 09-29-2012 04:18 AM

I usually always do a gloss finish, but sometimes rub down to a satin.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View rance's profile

rance

4147 posts in 1906 days


#12 posted 09-29-2012 04:32 AM

Congrats on the new gun and also for trying water based. I too try to spray water based when using a gun. Mostly because of the easy cleanup.

One of my buddies helps me when using a gun and we spray Target coatings. I’m really impressed with all their products. The laquers as well as their color products. The specifics escape me but I’ll try to get those and report back.

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View Les 's profile

Les

199 posts in 1436 days


#13 posted 09-30-2012 01:35 PM

If you want to try Target coatings, go to the web site today! Last day of 30% off and free shipping for 6000. Great stuff, I just ordered a gallon of their clear ploy to try on some kitchen cabinets. Good luck

Les

-- Stay busy....Stay young

View JSB's profile

JSB

713 posts in 824 days


#14 posted 09-30-2012 10:59 PM

How did you get 30% off? Its showing 10% off at $45.9

-- Jay - http://www.jayscustomcreations.com or http://www.woodworkingwithsketchup.com

View Les 's profile

Les

199 posts in 1436 days


#15 posted 10-01-2012 12:49 AM

Sorry, it says up to 30%, I just took it up the purchase point and the promo code SPX12 gives you 20% off instead. Try that, my screw up.

-- Stay busy....Stay young

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