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Forum topic by Raymond posted 09-24-2012 12:19 AM 3760 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Raymond

676 posts in 2482 days


09-24-2012 12:19 AM

Topic tags/keywords: question glue

Just thought I’d ask around what people are using for wood glue.

Elmers Carpenter Glue is my glue of choice.

What about you?

-- Ray


15 replies so far

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

5320 posts in 1553 days


#1 posted 09-24-2012 12:40 AM

I guess I’m pretty well on the record here for Hot Hide Glue.
Since I started using it all my Tightbond and urea formaldehyde glues have collected dust.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View nwbusa's profile

nwbusa

1017 posts in 1041 days


#2 posted 09-24-2012 01:14 AM

TB3.

-- John, BC, Canada

View whitebeast88's profile

whitebeast88

3613 posts in 945 days


#3 posted 09-24-2012 01:18 AM

titebond1 but i’m looking to by titebond3 next.

-- Marty.Athens,AL

View AandCstyle's profile

AandCstyle

1487 posts in 1012 days


#4 posted 09-24-2012 01:19 AM

I have been making end grain cutting boards lately, so have been using Titebond III. My point is that there is no perfect one-size-fits-all glue. You need to use the product most appropriate for your project. There are many factors that come into play-desired open time, water resistance, reversibility, resistance to creep, color, etc. Like most other decisions, use the best tool for the job.

-- Art

View wiswood2's profile

wiswood2

1128 posts in 2451 days


#5 posted 09-24-2012 01:29 AM

tite bond 2 and 3
Chuck

-- Chuck, wiswood2 www.wisconsinwoodchuck.com

View hamburglar's profile

hamburglar

42 posts in 854 days


#6 posted 09-24-2012 01:43 AM

I have been using Titebond, but need to find something with more open time. I messed up a small box today because of how quickly the glue set. (Or at least that is what I would like to blame it on… :D)

View Loren's profile

Loren

7832 posts in 2403 days


#7 posted 09-24-2012 02:05 AM

I prefer white glue for joinery. I’m using titebond 2
“extend” right now because it works with hot presses.

The white or yellow color is added in manufacture, but
in general the yellow glues tend to be rated for more
water resistance and the white glues have longer working
time, which is why I use white for joinery.

I have the equipment and supplies for hide glue but
never got around to teaching myself how to use it.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View wiser1934's profile

wiser1934

414 posts in 1902 days


#8 posted 09-24-2012 02:11 AM

my hands down choice is titebond 2 water resistant and ok for cutting boards

-- wiser1934, new york

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

839 posts in 1064 days


#9 posted 09-24-2012 02:25 AM

Here’s a little something about Titebond glue form someone who should know.

I got this from WoodCentral forum.

I’m a former Franklin employee and worked in the technical group until March of this year. Bill, your name sounds very familiar and I’m almost positive I’ve spoken with you at some point. If you’re who I’m thinking of you requested an informational CD after IWF two years ago after talking with Dale.

Anyways, since departing Franklin I’ve founded a business that is focused on guitars (after consulting that industry for a bit over a decade.) I have no industry affiliations with respect to adhesives: So here’s the straight dope on the differences:

White glues were the first PVA based adhesives and had little else to them. As a result they had lousy water resistance, were highly prone to creep, and generally wound up with a poor reputation compared to hot and liquid hide glues that were dominant in the woodworking industries at the time (mid 40s.) In order to improve their performance across the board (tack, creep resistance, thermal resistance, water resistance, to name a few) tackifying resins were added. In case you’re wondering, this is all that “aliphatic resin” glues consist of. I often call them resin-modified PVA’s because I consider it a less confusing term. This modification would not change the color on its own, so the decision was made to add yellow dye to differentiate them from white glues and is purely a marketing strategy. I have personally used dye free Titebond II and tested low quality yellow glues from manufacturers who have done nothing more than add dye to white glue. Uninformed individuals may try to convince you that yellow was added because it provided a better match to the surrounding wood. This is simply untrue. Not to mention, if you can see a glue line it’s too thick. As part of some competitive testing I performed on Gorilla Wood Glue (not the polyurethane… The type II water resistant white glue) I found that not only was it nearly colorless and clear when dried but its performance was effectively identical to that of Titebond II. If you need something colorless for an exterior application I would not hesitate to recommend Gorilla Wood Glue. Titebond III is a different animal. It was actually the end result of a project to achieve type I water resistance from a PVA as a method to compete with urea-formaldehyde adhesives. It does accomplish it, but unless you’re building a cutting board, countertop, or skateboard, I wouldn’t recommend it. The product is prone to creep, and there’s a reason its shear strength at 150°F isn’t published: it’s not great, usually around 1000 PSI which equates to a 2/3 loss of bond strength.

In terms of strength, at room temperature a good white glue can cause 100% wood failure just like Titebond Original, Extend, Titebond II, and Titebond III. Under ASTM D-905, they are also tested for shear strength at 150°F at which point from best to worst the list will look as follows: Titebond Extend, Titebond II Extend, Titebond Original, Titebond II, Titebond III. All PVA based adhesives are thermoplastics, which simply means they will melt (most of them reach their melting point somewhere above 250°F.) This is known as thermal plasticity, and in case you’re wondering, it correlates exactly with creep resistance. It’s also the reason that as a guitar manufacturer I personally use primarily Titebond Extend and Titebond 50. They’re overkill, but if a guitar gets left in a hot car I can still feel confident that it wont come apart.

I’ve seen the term crosslinking a lot in this thread and some confusion about how it relates to creep. Picture plain PVA adhesive as wet spaghetti noodles: If you leave them to dry they will tangle around each other and shrink a bit, and you won’t be able to pull the mass apart easily. Put that mess back into water and they will separate. Crosslinking PVAs would look more like spaghetti noodles that actually fused together as they dried and if you put them into water again those fused points (just like covalent crosslinks) would not separate. However, they do not crosslink with the wood itself. Instead, they have relatively weak electrostatic interactions (known as hydrogen bonds and van der waals forces) but in HUGE numbers, which is why they still create bonds stronger than wood.

I saw Bob’s name mentioned, you’re welcome to contact him if you wish. I helped train him, and unlike myself he comes from the sales/marketing world and still has an obvious corporate affiliation. In my case: I’m an entrepreneur with no specific allegiance to any adhesives company aside from my father who works for their industrial division. My Dad is the reason that despite being a younger guy I have been learning about the adhesives industry for over 25 years. I do my best to keep an eye on message boards because even though it’s not technically my responsibility anymore, I care about getting good information out to fellow woodworkers. Not to mention, at over 5 months unemployed and just starting to get endorsements and contract work… It makes me feel like I’m still contributing something to the world.

I’m sure I’ve opened a can of worms, so feel free to reply or contact me directly. I’m always happy to help.

-Hugh

Here’s a link to the whole thread if interested:

http://www.woodcentral.com/woodworking/forum/messages.pl/page/1/md/read/id/458486/sbj/the-difference...
Alaskans for Global Warming

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View fussy's profile

fussy

980 posts in 1805 days


#10 posted 09-24-2012 03:55 AM

Elmer’s. 40 years and never a problem. Thanks for the informative post, Rich.

Steve

-- Steve in KY. 44 years so far with my lovely bride. Think I'll keep her.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

4519 posts in 1135 days


#11 posted 09-24-2012 04:09 AM

Nice post Alaskaguy.

I use yellow wood glue, I don’t overthink it. Sometimes I buy the generic from Woodcraft, sometimes other brands, it just depends on where I am. I’ve used white glue a few times when I’ve run out. Sometimes I pour the glue into a small container and add a few drops of water to extend the open time, I’ve had no negative results from this.

Once on some cabinets I used construction adhesive and later had to take the cabinets apart. They were simple butt joints but the plywood broke before the glue gave, tough stuff.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View Rick  Dennington's profile

Rick Dennington

3614 posts in 1949 days


#12 posted 09-24-2012 05:31 AM

Titebond II and III and hyde glue for some applications…...

-- " I started with nothing, and I've still got most of it left".......

View Gshepherd's profile

Gshepherd

1689 posts in 956 days


#13 posted 09-24-2012 06:00 AM

Titebond I,II,III and extend, also Hide Glue, Depends upon what I am doing. Might as well throw System 3 Epoxy, There is not a one fits all type here.

-- What we do in life will Echo through Eternity........

View Oldwest's profile

Oldwest

78 posts in 1559 days


#14 posted 09-24-2012 06:25 AM

I have used Titebond 3 for the last 10 years and really like it.

I used to use Jowat wood glue, they had one where you could
hold the parts tpgether for 30 seconds and you didn’t have to
clamp a lot of parts.

-- Anyone who isn’t totally confused just doesn’t understand the situation.

View Tomj's profile

Tomj

204 posts in 1136 days


#15 posted 09-24-2012 06:51 AM

I use Titebond 2 and 3, and if I want more strength I use Urac 185 (specifically with my laminated bows) and cure in a big heated box at 100-110 degrees for bows with fiberglass I use smooth on which cures at 160 degrees in my heat box. I have used gorilla wood glue in laminated bows where the wood delaminated, switched to titebond 2-3 and it hasn’t happened since, but that could also be because I was new to glueing laminations at the time. I do still use Gorilla wood glue if I absolutely need a clear drying glue.

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