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GFIC outlet and my Performax 10-20 won't play together.

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Forum topic by Douglas Bordner posted 715 days ago 946 views 0 times favorited 21 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Douglas Bordner

3960 posts in 2665 days


715 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: question sander

I had the GFIC circuit in the garage pop while sanding. Wasn’t trying to hog-off too much, halfway through a pass. Now as soon as it plugs in the GFIC trips, even when the conveyor and drum switches are off. I’ve blown it all out with a compressor and would like to get a look in the junction box behind the switch but can’t figure out how to pull the safety paddle switch in order to get in there. Can’t see a clip to access, nothing is visible under the lock-out. How do you get in there?

Thank you to all who respond…

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.


21 replies so far

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Douglas Bordner

3960 posts in 2665 days


#1 posted 715 days ago

PS, already replaced the GFIC…

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

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Jimbo4

1123 posts in 1364 days


#2 posted 715 days ago

Was going to recommend replacing. Mine did the same thing. I disassembled the old GFCI, just to see what the innards looked like – burned contacts.

-- BELT SANDER: Used for making rectangular gouges in wood.

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Handtooler

1055 posts in 733 days


#3 posted 715 days ago

Yes, a weak or faulty breaker would be the first culprit. Of course the circuit is ample for your machines load? Wire guage and breaker size. Russell

-- Russell Pitner Hixson, TN 37343 bassboy40@msn.com

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waho6o9

4749 posts in 1178 days


#4 posted 715 days ago

I would try different outlets just to see what would happen.
Good luck my friend.

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Douglas Bordner

3960 posts in 2665 days


#5 posted 715 days ago

Was running the DC too, and the sound system. But I have done so for years without issue. I’m pretty sure it’s in the tool.
All other woodworking pursuits are happening. It’s a 15 amp breaker at the panel, and I have popped it attempting to run the TS under load (binding) and don’t run it and the DC at the same time EVER. I usually run only one machine at a time and clean up afterward, but the drum sander has to be vacuumed as it runs. I may try plugging it in to a non GFIC circuit, just to see if I can bring the whole house to a stand-still. XD

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

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Douglas Bordner

3960 posts in 2665 days


#6 posted 715 days ago

Anybody know how to pull that paddle switch?

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

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Jamie Speirs

4092 posts in 1458 days


#7 posted 715 days ago

I removed the cut off.

I just watch that I dont drive to thick a

piece through

Before I removed it I was waiting longer

for resetting than I was sanding.

jamie

-- Who is the happiest of men? He who values the merits of others, and in their pleasure takes joy, even as though 'twere his own. --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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TopamaxSurvivor

14604 posts in 2277 days


#8 posted 715 days ago

It only takes 5 milliamps to trip the GFCI. You may be able to trouble shoot the machine with a good meter like a Fluke. I’m not sure if a cheap mete will tell you anything.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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Karson

34858 posts in 3002 days


#9 posted 714 days ago

Douglas: I had a ground fault pop with just an electric eye on the circit som it doesn’t take much of a bleed for it to pop.

I would think that the bottom of the control area should be able to be removed and then you can get to the switch from there.

Just remember a ground fault doesn’t pop because of a short, it pops because on an inbalance of current from a hot wire (black) 0that doesn’t return through the ground side (White) so check from the white to the ground to see if there is a connection.

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

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Karson

34858 posts in 3002 days


#10 posted 714 days ago

Does anything else pop the GFCI, Just the sander?

-- I've been blessed with a father who liked to tinker in wood, and a wife who lets me tinker in wood. Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com †

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Douglas Bordner

3960 posts in 2665 days


#11 posted 714 days ago

Just the sander. The schematic shows a common ground post for the conveyor and drum. Some spider/cobweb blew out when I was cleaning it. There are two screws that attach the wiring box to the chassis, the rocker, a reset button with a screw on bezel and the potentiometer dial on the top for conveyor speed.

-- "Bordnerizing" perfectly good lumber for over a decade.

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Tennessee

1447 posts in 1116 days


#12 posted 714 days ago

Remember that a GFCI is intended to pop when it senses any voltage going to ground. This also has to have a small amount of amperage with it, so the sensor can trip. Doesn’t take much at all, milliamps.
Also remember that the original use of GFCI is to prevent shock around water, so if water can carry the current with 120VAC, you will pop. People always think of a lighting bolt running through water, lighting is usually over 30,000 VDC. WAY more then a little 120VAC. So you have an amperage bleed somewhere in your sander, maybe even in the plug and wire.
All that being said, you may have a slight ground in multiple places in your sander, not just the switch. Any place where you might have dust from wood with any kind of dampness or minerals that would allow the windings to ground, the switch, any screw connection, the whole circuit!

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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klassenl

113 posts in 1260 days


#13 posted 714 days ago

I would like to chime in here but I think my advice would be poo-pooed by most of the “experts” here.

-- When questioned about using glue on a garbage bin I responded, "Wood working is about good technique and lots of glue........I have the glue part down."

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EEngineer

885 posts in 2214 days


#14 posted 714 days ago

GFCI compares the current in the “hot” wire with the current in the “neutral” wire. Any difference (a difference as little as 5 milliAmps will cause the GFCI to trip) between the two currents must be taking a different path than from the “hot” through the application to “neutral”. The most dangerous case is where that path is through a person’s body to ground, also known as electrocution.

Now, there are lots of possibilities for where the current path might be BUT the most common case is a breakdown in the varnish used as insulation on the wires in the motor windings. Except in the most extreme cases, you are not going to be able to measure that with a voltmeter. They generally drive the ohms function with a few volts. Varnish breakdown doesn’t show up until the voltage is 100 volts or higher. In general, you need a “hi-pot” tester (high potential) that measures leakage with a high voltage applied to the motor. Any decent motor shops will have this equipment.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

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TopamaxSurvivor

14604 posts in 2277 days


#15 posted 714 days ago

I can usually identify GFCI tripping issues with my ol’ Fluke 27. Motor testing does require a higher voltage meter. I can’t remember if I ever had a motor winding grounding causing the unbalance or not. I have done it too many times to remember them all ;-)) AS I recall, the Fluke usually shows about 3-4 mega ohms or less on a tripping circuit. Usually 6 mega ohms to infinity will be clear. I doubt if this helps much.

If the sander is the only thing tripping the GFCI, it is most likely 99.9% for sure the problem.

-- "some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence

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