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Ten Reasons to own a Saw stop

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Forum topic by MrRon posted 08-10-2012 10:37 PM 2542 views 0 times favorited 45 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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MrRon

2867 posts in 1933 days


08-10-2012 10:37 PM

Here is a little tongue-in-cheek humor that I hope you won’t find offensive. Decide for yourself if they apply to you or not. This is not a scientific study; my apology to Jeff Foxworthy.
• If you text message while driving, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you pull over to the side of the road because it’s raining, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you won’t cross a street against a red light even though its 3 AM and there are no vehicles in sight, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you are a carpenter and your boss tells you to get the job done in record time, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you are a kid in shop class, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you don’t know the difference between a claw hammer and a ball peen hammer, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you think sharp kitchen knives are too dangerous, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you won’t climb a ladder without someone holding it steady, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you are forgetful and easily distracted, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
• If you find this offensive, you are a good candidate for a Saw stop.
Feel free to chime in with your thoughts, positive or negative. I am not a Saw stop owner (can’t afford it) and not against the technology; certainly a finger saved is worth every bit of the cost of the saw. There have been so many discussions on various woodworking sites, that there seems to be a stalemate as to the subject. MY only gripe is someone (Gass) trying to jam it down our throats. I guess my only question is: Is the Saw stop for everyone?


45 replies so far

View Roadster280's profile

Roadster280

23 posts in 809 days


#1 posted 08-10-2012 11:31 PM

Having just bought one, and finding myself fitting none of the categories above, I’m going to have to produce my own list. It’s a short one.

I wanted a good quality saw, and since it’s available, an insurance policy for my fingers.

There’s no other saw that fitted the bill. If Delta would license the technology and install it in the Unisaw, I’d a) have bought one, and b) would still trade the SS for a Uni if they do so.

View da3t's profile

da3t

5 posts in 806 days


#2 posted 08-14-2012 02:22 AM

The cost and perceived benefit of the safety feature should be incorporated in anyone’s purchasing decision. Mr Ron has dismissed it as too expensive for the benefit, so Sawstop is not for people who weight their decision that way. I place more weight on it. And, from the reviews and from what I’ve seen of it in person, it seems like a well-made saw. So if we assume it is above-average for its class, and therefore assume the brake alone adds $500-$1000 to the cost of the saw, this will set you back $50 – $100 per year if the saw lifespan is only 10 years, and it then self-destructs with no resale value. Seems affordable to me, compared most of the other insurance I pay, if you want to use the insurance analogy.

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lumberjoe

2842 posts in 938 days


#3 posted 08-14-2012 12:41 PM

I am not a fan of the sawstop. It is lazy innovation. Table saws are extremely dangerously designed. The saw stop used the same flawed and dangerous design and threw a touch responsive brake in the mix. This still does nothing to prevent or even address kickbacks. If you want to make something safer, look for other ways to cut wood rather than pushing it with your hands through a spinning blade that pinches an edge up against a locked down fence.

Sliding table saws are a good example of real innovation that actually addresses safety issues.

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

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Doss

779 posts in 954 days


#4 posted 08-14-2012 04:32 PM

Good ole Joe, the sliding saw advocate. :-) You have me convinced that’s what I should buy though… so it’s working. LOL

Roadster and da3t, I’m sure MrRon meant this for humor’s sake. In fact, Here is a little tongue-in-cheek humor that I hope you won’t find offensive (pretty much says it all).

I too wondered about the lure of the Saw Stop. I mean, sure, the safety feature is great and all, but how great of a saw is it? I even posted about this last week in my own thread. What I came away with is that it is a great saw that is comparable to other saws in its category with a premium tacked on for its safety feature… its namesake. Nothing wrong with that. I just don’t value its safety feature that much (I’d probably quickly change my mind if I nicked or cut a finger though LOL).

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

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lumberjoe

2842 posts in 938 days


#5 posted 08-14-2012 04:57 PM

There is no doubt it is a good traditional table saw, however as I mentioned a traditional table saw is a dangerous tool.
I wish manufacturers would get in on the REAL sliding saw market and give us some cheaper options with a standard 5/8” arbor,10” blades, optional scoring blade (I rarely use sheet goods so it is of little value) and more geared to the hardcore weekend warrior than the production shop.
In doing research I feel the safety advantages to a sliding table FAR surpass a gimmicky blade brake. The saw stop will only protect you if the danger is imminent and unavoidable. Sliders change the way you work and eliminate a lot of the operations that create that imminent situation. That is real innovation and an example of “built in” and not bolted on.

This relates to my formal work background in proper IT procedures using Six Sigma (LEAN), ITIL, and various ISO standards. Sawstop is focusing a lot of effort on fixing a symptom (laceration hazard). Someone needs to take a holistic look and fix the problem that table saws are dangerous. Just as an exercise, let’s go through the “5 whys”. I like to do this but it makes you sound like a 4 year old.

Problem: Table saws hurt people
Why?
Because people get cut (Sawstop technology stops here, thus not offering a REAL solution, just a flawed band-aid that addresses a symptom), or the piece can kick back.
Why?
Because you have to push the wood through the blade using your hands, and sometimes your hands are pretty close. Also the piece can get stuck between the blade and the fence and possibly thrown back
Why?
How else are you supposed to cut wood on a table saw? There is no other mechanism on a table saw to move the wood through the blade for a lot if cuts without using your hands directly, and there is no alternative to a fence to make a straight, long cut.
Why?
Good question! Let’s stop here and use this to engineer a better solution.

Only 4 why’s needed this time :)

-- www.etsy.com/shop/KandJWoodCrafts

View Brad_Nailor's profile

Brad_Nailor

2531 posts in 2647 days


#6 posted 08-14-2012 05:00 PM

If you appreciate having your fingers on your hand then you might be a good candidate for a Saw Stop
If you think that accidents happen to the best prepared, most experienced woodworkers….
If you realize that being brave, arrogant, cocky, or feel your immune to injury wont keep you from getting hurt….
If you do the research and find out how many accidents this technology has prevented..
If you realize that it is a well built, quality saw…

I agree with Joe..the Europeans have been way ahead of the curve when it comes to table saw safety..riving knives, sliding table saws..That would be great if a big company would market an affordable sliding saw for the home market.

-- http://www.facebook.com/pages/DSO-Designs/297237806954248

View Doss's profile

Doss

779 posts in 954 days


#7 posted 08-14-2012 06:21 PM

I still think you can accomplish most of what a sliding tablesaw does with a proper sled and in/outfeed table though.

I also don’t think the Saw Stop tech is flawed or a band-aid. It is designed to serve a purpose. It is not 100% reliable true, but that doesn’t mean it’s necessarily flawed. It’s not a band-aid because it is designed for a single purpose, stopping the blade when it detects contact with [what it thinks is] flesh.

Where your reasoning does apply is that it is not a complete system to address all tablesaw safety issues.

Just some thoughts on that subject.

Also, Grizzly makes the Grizzly G0623X which is a very affordable slider.

Another thought, why not add something like the Excalibur sliding table attachment to the Saw Stop? Best of both worlds?

-- "Well, at least we can still use it as firewood... maybe." - Doss

View pierce85's profile

pierce85

508 posts in 1252 days


#8 posted 08-14-2012 09:11 PM

Of course, MrRon JUST intended this to be tongue-in-cheek and nothing else. So in the spirit of tongue-in-cheekiness, here are my top-ten reasons for not owning a SawStop. I sincerely hope you won’t find this offensive…

10. You fear the govment is going to confiscate your tablesaw from your cold dead fingers – all six of them.
9. You believe all lawyers are vermin except for those you retain for yourself and your retarded stepson – relax, it’s a joke.
8. You live by the phrase “You can’t fix stupid” and have no clue why people become silent and sheepishly look with disbelief every time that statement comes out of your mouth.
7. You’re too lazy to read the CSPC Report.
6. You can’t read.
5. You trust power tool manufacturers to give you unbiased, accurate information because only THEY have your best consumer and safety interests at heart – PTI forever!
4. You live by yourself on Pluto because you’ve vowed to never to let anyone tell you what you can or cannot do.
3. You wished you lived all by yourself on Pluto so no one could tell you what you can or cannot do.
2. Steve Gass is the Antichrist or closely related on his mother’s side.
1. You wish the govment would stop meddling in your personal affairs except when traveling, eating, breathing, drinking, getting paid, getting sick, getting well, buying anything, paying your bills-debts-tuition, in emergencies, watching TV, listening to your favorite talk-radio idiot, when roads need fixing, when fires need extinguishing, when criminals-terrorists-illegal immigrants and all other undesirables need to be locked up, when your son daughter nephew niece brother sister mother father decides to join the military because corporate America is exporting employment opportunities to India, China and other developing countries at the speed of light.

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts or simply continue gnashing your teeth with torches in hand.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2867 posts in 1933 days


#9 posted 08-14-2012 10:37 PM

Pierce 85,
I’m not even going to touch number 1.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3797 posts in 2057 days


#10 posted 08-15-2012 02:22 AM

Does anyone on this site own one of the Hammer sliding table saws?

Hammer Woodworking USA

I really like those saws and just want to get their opinion on safety with a sliding table.

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Lumberzach12's profile

Lumberzach12

17 posts in 838 days


#11 posted 08-15-2012 02:33 AM

Ah the saw stop. Saved my finger when I was in shop class. They make on hell of a thud when they drop.

-- Carpenters never die. They just get board!

View Dan Katz's profile

Dan Katz

42 posts in 1328 days


#12 posted 04-22-2013 11:43 PM

Hi Guys,
A little late chimming in. Just turned 64 and as a birthday gift to myself I pulled the plug on my
old Delta Contractors saw. Until I can afford a SawStop I’ll be using my 20” Rockwell bandsaw, planer
and jointer for wood processing. In the mean time I’m reviewing all the options for a sliding table to put on the Sawstop. One point that isn’t brought up much is that ripping on a Format style slider is not that comfortable. The logical trade off would be the Exaktor or Grizzly type add-on which allows the user to have access to the saw as in normal use. I’m aware of the pleasures of straightline ripping with the format type,
but from what I’ve heard most pro shops have both kinds of saws in their plants.
Dan

-- VillageCarver,Chattanooga

View Woodmaster1's profile

Woodmaster1

498 posts in 1276 days


#13 posted 04-23-2013 12:04 AM

My worst injury in 30yrs. was on a saw stop at work. Kickback happens on any tablesaw. The board split my thumbnail in half. I have not an injury on any other tablesaw brand delta, Powermatic, jet or craftsman. I guess it is just my bad luck. The picture is after a month.

View oldnovice's profile

oldnovice

3797 posts in 2057 days


#14 posted 04-23-2013 05:38 AM

lumberjoe here is the saw I want as it has a sliding table, riving knife, and extremely good dust collection

And, if I had the money/room and my old saw was not 99% capable it would be in my garage tomorrow.

Hammer Tools to check out their cheesy video!

-- "I never met a board I didn't like!"

View Knothead62's profile

Knothead62

2364 posts in 1650 days


#15 posted 04-23-2013 10:43 AM

Which is more dangerous- a table saw or a motor vehicle?
Got a chuckle out of the list. Thanks.

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