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Forum topic by DKV posted 754 days ago 2249 views 0 times favorited 113 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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DKV

3100 posts in 1141 days


754 days ago

I recently read this:

The evolutionists state that everything changes or, just evolved by needs over time, well this could be for some simple things but for the various reproduction methods of animals over time; this is very questionable…   This still doesn’t explain why some species would even think of changing,  or want to change, or need to change…   Lets look at the last “needs ” to change, due to the environment, etc. ; well first since the evolutionist state that the change would take place over millions of years…  Thus an animal needing more, fur, or gills, or wings would not have time before the environment caught up and they would die out…   It would take too much time for them to adapt or change into what ever new forms; much less getting their biology to cooperate and product a new creature…   It is a rather drawn out argument you must admit…    But for the sake of argument we will let them have their turn at bat…   We will say it happened, that way…  OK!!

The above was written by a creationist. This is what I think:

I agree with the author in that environmental changes happen too quickly for biological changes to catch up. Evolution does not chase change requirements, rather species are already where they need to be when the change is necessitated. I believe as do scientists that all species (including human) are varied and various groups within a species can differ from one another and still be the same species.

I’ll give an example. All members of a species differ somewhat. Some are brighter colored, some have larger appendages, more fur, etc. An example would be body hair. Some human males have far more than others. We can see this and prove this.

I also think that when an environmental change occurs which ever group is best prepared will survive. Let’s say a species of wolf inhabits the central US. Of this species a genetic mutation has occured that has spread through half of the total number. That mutation is the undercoat of half the species is thinner and less dense than the other half. Both varients can readily survive in the temperate climate of the midwest. However, should the climate become extremely hot (tropical) or cold (artic) then one of the halves will be more ready to adapt to the new environment and may in fact be the half to survive.

The author is wrong in his supposition that biological change chases and follows environmental change. Environmental change occurs far to fast for any biology that I am aware of to make the necessary changes. Evolution is haphazard. Only those that are ready for the change will survive and being ready for the change is based on the luck of having the correct gene mutation. In fact, none of the species may be ready and all will perish.
Just my thoughts…

-- 2014 will be a different year...at least for me it will.


113 replies so far

View therookie's profile

therookie

887 posts in 1464 days


#1 posted 754 days ago

I do believe in evolution, but in all reality yes there is a non-shop talk forum but my firm belief is that it should be used for items like notifying this website of a passing of a jock or something along those lines. I mean some politics is OK but when that is all anyone wants to talk about on a WOODWORKING forum, I believe that there is something seriously wrong with that picture. For example my news feed has been showing that more and more people are commenting on the political stuff instead of the woodworking. When someone comments on a project that you post it gives you a little glory moment because they are usually saying good job or giving advice, it makes you feel good. but no not anymore, it is rare that you see more than 10 or 12 comments on one project now, where as before you could see 30 or 40. Just my opinion I have been keeping to my self for a long time now and I am getting sick of this ^ crap being posted.

-- http://aewoodworks.webs.com

View chrisstef's profile

chrisstef

10707 posts in 1643 days


#2 posted 754 days ago

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View jmos's profile

jmos

681 posts in 1006 days


#3 posted 754 days ago

At the risk of being blunt: Evolution is a scientific fact, you can accept it or reject it, but belief does not enter into the discussion. If your religious beliefs conflict with evolution, or any other science, you must decide how you will deal with that, but it does not diminish the validity of the scientific theory.

Your post indicates significant confusion with the basics of evolution (which is very common in the US) and you would benefit greatly from reading some introductory science books on the subject. I would suggest “Why Evolution is true” by Jerry Coyne; it is well written and accessible to the lay person.

-- John

View woodworkerscott's profile

woodworkerscott

360 posts in 1451 days


#4 posted 754 days ago

jmos
Very well put. You are exactly right…..there is no argument; evolution is fact. Thanks for posting.

-- " 'woodworker'.....it's a good word, an honest word." - Sam Maloof

View DKV's profile

DKV

3100 posts in 1141 days


#5 posted 754 days ago

Jmos, please point out a few of the significant confusions.

Therookie, thanks for your thoughts.

Chrisstef, I do not know what you are trying to communicate.

-- 2014 will be a different year...at least for me it will.

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chrisstef

10707 posts in 1643 days


#6 posted 754 days ago

that youre a troll

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View Mark's profile

Mark

1787 posts in 1911 days


#7 posted 754 days ago

haha good one chrisstef

-- My purpose in life: Making sawdust

View DKV's profile

DKV

3100 posts in 1141 days


#8 posted 754 days ago

Chrisstef, please post a list of allowable nonshop topics. I’m not sure about the troll label.

Mark, have you ever thought on your own or do you just follow what others say and giggle?

-- 2014 will be a different year...at least for me it will.

View patcollins's profile

patcollins

994 posts in 1502 days


#9 posted 754 days ago

I believe in evolution but JMOS as a scientist I have to say that evolution is not a fact, it is a very well regarded theory. There is actually a difference, people that try to politicize science (like Al Gore) use the words fact when they shouldn’t. The instant you say something is a scientific fact and there is no room for arguement then you are as closed minded as the people that deny evolution.

Not all evolution is for the best, imagine breeding dogs. If certian dogs interbreed or breed with other species they get different characteristics. The resulting species of dog could die out or it could continue to live on, but that doesn’t necessarly mean its a better dog. This is where I think many believers in evolution don’t quite understand it. The darwinism only occurs if there is an outside force that “kills off” the inferior dogs.

One simply has to sit on a busy street to see evolution has failed some :)

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

6869 posts in 1320 days


#10 posted 754 days ago

Ah, the simple pleasures of working wood by hand…

This was a tree that evolved into a pallet, that evolved into an Oak Table. As for the by hand part? My hand guided each piece. Of course, If you want to look at….

something curlie…..

Answer the Irish Poem, yet?

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

View dakremer's profile

dakremer

2451 posts in 1728 days


#11 posted 754 days ago

I agree with the theory of Evolution, but (jmos) it is NOT “scientific fact”

-- Hey you dang woodchucks, quit chucking my wood!!!!

View GregD's profile

GregD

614 posts in 1773 days


#12 posted 754 days ago

The evolutionists…

This is a misnomer. It seems to me that the people that have confidence in the theory of evolution are not so much believers in evolution, but are believers in the scientific method, the process that produced this particular theory (and others). It would be far more appropriate to label this group scientists. That paragraph then continues with some babbling that is not at all representative of the current theory of evolution nor the data and analysis behind it.

-- Greg D.

View jmos's profile

jmos

681 posts in 1006 days


#13 posted 754 days ago

Pat, you are, of course, correct. If the strict sense all scientific knowledge is provisional, which is the beautiful thing about it.

The distinction I was trying to make is that evolution happened, and is happening. There is no theory that will come along and completely disprove evolution, especially in the creationism sense. It is possible the copious amount of evidence for evolution will be integrated into a larger, more comprehensive theory at some point (as Newtonian mechanics was absorbed into Relativity and Quantum Mechanics).

Many religious apologists like to try to use ‘theory’ in the colloquial sense to indicate that it’s just some guys opinion, which it is not.

DKV, if you are really asking this to gain knowledge, I’d look up the reference I quoted. I don’t have the interest or time to get into a detailed discussion on evolution, especially on a woodworking site.

-- John

View DKV's profile

DKV

3100 posts in 1141 days


#14 posted 754 days ago

jmos, I am very interested and I am always open to knowledge gain. I am currently reading chapter 2 of your suggested reading. I don’t understand why we can’t discuss this subject in the nonshop forum of a woodworking site. I look forward to any input you may have. BTW, I have not found any “significant confusions” so far. Maybe chapter 3…

Bandit, you obviously did not read the title of this thread…

-- 2014 will be a different year...at least for me it will.

View bandit571's profile

bandit571

6869 posts in 1320 days


#15 posted 754 days ago

Ah, but I did, sirah… If a piece of lumber can evolve, so can almost anybody, just look to your changing avatars for proof.

-- A Planer? I'M the planer, this is what I use

showing 1 through 15 of 113 replies

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