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oil-based poly (GF ArmRSeal)/Aqua-Coat/ArmRSeal? ...does it make any sense?

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Forum topic by Millo posted 08-08-2012 04:34 AM 1399 views 0 times favorited 17 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Millo

543 posts in 1766 days


08-08-2012 04:34 AM

Hey everyone,

Will I get the warm look from the oil-based poly if I fill the grain on a very small walnut/spalted pecan box with Aqua Coat and then finish it of w/ General Finishes oil-based poly product? Or, should apply a “spit coat” of General Finishes before applying the filler? I know I can cover the water-based filler with oil-based finish, but can I put a spit coat of oil-based poly UNDER the water-based grain filler? Will it stick? I wonder what the differences are, under or over…?

Again, I would only do that if somehow the grain-enhancing characteristics of the penetrating oil based finish are not achieved with a first coat of water-based grain filler on raw wood.

Thanks!


17 replies so far

View Moron's profile

Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#1 posted 08-08-2012 04:45 AM

I personally hate poly

hate it

the only thing worse is boiled linseed oil and only because the stench isn’t worth the effort albeit when dried, and all fumes subside, ……nice finish

I just hate the look of plastic and every specimen of poly, looks exactly like plastic.

: ((

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#2 posted 08-08-2012 04:47 AM

Fake

wood should look like wood

not plastic coated

let the ages of experience throw their wrath at me

I will, in the end, ………..think plastic

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#3 posted 08-08-2012 04:49 AM

poly ?

BS

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Moron's profile

Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#4 posted 08-08-2012 05:06 AM

finishing is a very slippery slope

a gradient that can cost tens of thousands of dollars and I am not here to debate the ads of what billion dollar corporations shove down your throat as they all want a piece of your wallet, Sell to the sheep, as they have no Shepard ?

My purpose is to save you some light so that at the end of the tunnel, I can save you the suffering from the bridges I burned so that I might light your way so you too might avoid a train : ))

Poly is over rated BS, Easy “Yes”………….doesnt look like “plastic”……..not a chance

You can fool the populous, but it still looks like plastic

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#5 posted 08-08-2012 05:20 AM

Rant over, just sick of the non sense that says “Poly”

I hate wood that looks like plastic covered crap

what a perfect way to ruin a good piece of wood

listen to the crap,……”air born, water born, HVLP born”

its almost like a religion……….non sense, difficult for a novice at the worst times & challenging for a pro at the best of times

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#6 posted 08-08-2012 05:23 AM

I hate poly

look at my library of projects and you tell me

look at those that swear by it ?

u b the jury

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Millo's profile

Millo

543 posts in 1766 days


#7 posted 08-08-2012 12:46 PM

wow, man, your hatred runs DEEP. You’re the pro and I trust our opinion, however, I’ve seen projects where it’s not too obvious. The reason I want to use it is I already have two cans of it, one gloss, the other satin, plus a General Finishes Gel topcoat. I think they’re all polyurethanes.

I don’t have a spray system or both. What OTHER finish can I wipe on that is durable and might be available in various sheens?

I will also be finishing a walnut sofa table to which I was planning to apply water-based grain filler, then brush on one of these polyurethane products on the top, wipe it on for the vertical surfaces.

I might still use the GF products mentioned at least for 3 or 4 small projects, maybe not the 2 tables anxiously waiting for me to take care of them. finishing is the most intimidating thing for me.

THANKS

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Moron

4691 posts in 2610 days


#8 posted 08-08-2012 03:19 PM

Sincerely sorry.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

View Clint Searl's profile

Clint Searl

1479 posts in 1078 days


#9 posted 08-08-2012 04:10 PM

I hate poly

look at my library of projects and you tell me

Moron, looking at your projects, I find nothing superior to a poly (oil or water) finish. You obviously pay attention to preparation and application of your clear finishes. The same level of care when using poly assures an equally fine finish.

Tell us more about your finishing strategy that delivers, in your opinion, the best finish. Inquiring minds want to know.

-- Clint Searl....Ya can no more do what ya don't know how than ya can git back from where ya ain't been

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1966 posts in 1210 days


#10 posted 08-08-2012 04:20 PM

A lot of the “warm” or amber cast from the oil based finishes come from the linseed oil base; BLO by itself will also provide that same warmth. But that appearance is often due to the finish being on the wood, and if you seal it, I would think it will still have some of the amber cast, but probably not as much. Being that the look you want is subjective, I think maybe trying it on some scrap (is there such a thing as scrap spalted pecan?). and judge for your self. For the record, I am not a fan of poly either, but your plan has merit if it gives you the look you want. Have you thought about filling the grain with the varnish? I hate doing that, it takes several coats that keep getting sanded back and varnish takes so long to cure for the sanding can really up your time investment.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View killerb's profile

killerb

150 posts in 1115 days


#11 posted 08-08-2012 05:14 PM

You don’t want to put water base over oil base unless you let the oil dry for 72 hours minimum. If you use the oil base stain over the aqua coat, then use the gel finish over that. Wipe on and wipe off. Be gentle when wiping, or you might get some of the color off. Let the stain dry overnight. Then do a light coat of the gel. Or even a spit coat of shellac and then gel. The shellac will seal in the color. As Fred says above, do a sample all the way through. It is the safest thing you can do. bob

-- Bob www.bobkloes.com

View bondogaposis's profile

bondogaposis

2681 posts in 1068 days


#12 posted 08-08-2012 07:04 PM

Will I get the warm look from the oil-based poly if I fill the grain on a very small walnut/spalted pecan box with Aqua Coat and then finish it of w/ General Finishes oil-based poly product?

In my opinion, no. I would forget the aqua coat and just finish w/ seal a cell and arm r seal.

-- Bondo Gaposis

View gfadvm's profile

gfadvm

11345 posts in 1407 days


#13 posted 08-09-2012 02:27 AM

I use TimberMate grain filler and have not used Aqua Coat. I have wiped on Spar Urethane/mineral spirits over Timbermate with good results. Use semi gloss and then apply wax with a fine Scotch pad. This eliminates the plastic look for me. I’m really liking the Deft rattle can lacquer the more I use it so try that after you have used up your poly supply.

-- " I'll try to be nicer, if you'll try to be smarter" gfadvm

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

1157 posts in 2587 days


#14 posted 08-10-2012 01:30 PM

Arm r seal is a urethane based oil and one of my favorites, polyeurthane simply means its a blend of 2 or more resins, most dont like “poly” ( meaning 2) because it has a plastic look, this is simply due to sheen, a gloss or semi goss can have a plastic look to it, try a satin, as to your question, aquacoat is a waterbased grain filler and an excellent one I might add, however anything water base does not add the warmth a solvent based product will, but Arm r Seal will add the warmth, the issue is because of the grain filler being in the grain, the oil will not be able to get there, , a simple solution would be to give the raw wood a light coat of shellac, then do your grain fill, that way the shellac will add the warmth your speaking of to the wood, then when its grain filled , as aqua coat dries clear it will show thru. Now once you sand the piece the sheallac will be removed from the surface, then when the Arm R seal is applied it will add it back, this way the deeper filled grain and the surface will both have the look you want A quick, note, the warming effect that oil and solvent based product give us, is more a reaction from the chemicals in the products with the wood than them actually adding color, you can use clear lacquer and it will do the same thing, Water base is pretty much non reactive with the wood, so it doesnt have the desired reaction, but a quick coat of shellac will take care of that .

View Millo's profile

Millo

543 posts in 1766 days


#15 posted 08-11-2012 03:33 AM

Charles, THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR ANSWER! I will try that sometime next week, or the week after that… ;-)

I did write to Aqua Coat who recommended simpy to add it to the raw wood.

I will let the shellac cure well, then sand, before applying Aqua Coat.

killerb: I won’t be staining.

gfadvm… I hadn’t thought of the rattle can finishes. I guess there ARE decent ones, huh? I wil have to give some a try.

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