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Gibson Guitars Settles

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Forum topic by Moron posted 752 days ago 1770 views 0 times favorited 57 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Moron

4666 posts in 2526 days


752 days ago

It’s about time. Guessing this should be a lesson to everyone.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-19153588

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso


57 replies so far

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Mainiac Matt

3895 posts in 961 days


#1 posted 752 days ago

I’ve been following this suit for some time and I think this is disgusting…. a total abuse of power by the Feds and a perfect example of why our gub’ment is both brain dead and failing.

The way this idiotic law was written, Gibson could have purchased fret boards pre-cut from China and the Chinese could have used any source of Ebony they wanted… sustainable or not… because the law does not apply to the import of finished parts… only lumber.

But because Gibson chose to employ people in the USA and also satisfy their customers desire for guitars made with the best materials for the application, they’re getting smacked with $300 K fine, $50 K extorsion fee for environmental protection and the loss of over $50 K in Ebony.

For no reason at all!!! because Gibson bought the wood from India and the wood had a pedigree as having come from sustainable forrestry practices… but they were lied to and the wood actually came from Madigascar.

Now the Feds will destroy the wood…. and Gibson will just buy finished fret boards from China, who are free to buy the lumber from Madigascar without restriction….

So the end result of this action to “protect the environment” ?

The Feds will destroy a valuable natural resource…
Repalcement wood will be hacked down in Madigascar and shipped to China
More American jobs will be shipped to China
More American workers put on the dole
And the brain dead Feds and environmentalist will all pat each other on the back for saving the world.

The Feds sent in armed agents to “raid” Gibson, like it was a drug bust…. (I’m suprised some trigger happy Fish and Wildlife agent didnt’ shoot someone dead by accident as they played Rambo at a well respected business).

Gibson settled, because the Feds were going to bleed them dry with attorney fees…. as this has dragged on for years. The Feds don’t care how much money they waste to prosecute this kind of case…. becasue they can always just borrow more…. (from China, of course).

The BBC article is short on hard facts and long on their slanted interpretation of what went down (note the loose use of the term “right wingers”).... which is to be expected from the state funded mouthpiece of elitist statist.

There’s an age old principal that will not be denied….

“the stupid shall be punished”

hang on for the ride… it’s not going to be pleasant.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

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sarahss

254 posts in 1282 days


#2 posted 752 days ago

well said ssnvet

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gumper

7 posts in 959 days


#3 posted 752 days ago

350 grand, plus giving up stock, to avoid further issues with the gov. Cheaper than fighting it.

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Moron

4666 posts in 2526 days


#4 posted 752 days ago

Interesting perspective ssnvet. Never really thought about it and thanks for the input.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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madts

1247 posts in 972 days


#5 posted 752 days ago

ssnvet: I totally disagree with your comments. We as a whole are robbing our enviroment blind. If it were not for the EPA and the Fish and Wildlife, we would still have burning rivers and no animals left for all you bambi-blasters to hunt. The gun manufacturers would be out of business. The NRA would have to fold because of no members. No fish in the rivers to fly-cast for. I could go on and on.

So when Gibson needs to buy frets from china, all they have to do is ask for proof of where this thingies were made. It is not that hard.

-- Thor and Odin are still the greatest of Gods.

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1701 days


#6 posted 752 days ago

madts-
I think that you missed the part about Gibson being told that they were buying sustainable ebony but were lied to. If, however, they buy finished frets from China – or anywhere else – they’re home free since there’s no sustainability regulations for finished parts.

Just for grins, why don’t you read up on the history of wildlife conservation funded by the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. It’s a practice that far predates the formation of the EPA.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

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CL810

1968 posts in 1621 days


#7 posted 752 days ago

The look of ebony may be changing!

This is a link to a Youtube video by Bob Taylor of Taylor Guitars.

In the video Bob Taylor explains what his company is doing about ebony. VERY interesting.

It was posted last fall so it may be old news to some.

-- "It's amazing how much can go wrong when you think you know what you're doing."

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Moron

4666 posts in 2526 days


#8 posted 752 days ago

Really enjoyed that video. ….thks for posting

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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krisrimes

99 posts in 1168 days


#9 posted 752 days ago

I don’t quite understand why if they were lied to it somehow ended up as Gibson’s fault. Madts, not to derail this thread, but most of the folks that I know that are bambi blasters and fish killers are very concerned with conservation and the environment as a whole. They are very aware that in order to continue to enjoy the things they do in the outdoors, they have to not only abide by the limits and quotas, but also preserve the habitat they live in.

View Joseph Jossem's profile

Joseph Jossem

369 posts in 901 days


#10 posted 752 days ago

thats a good chunk of change could be worse.looks like the lacey act has finally put a high price tag on lumber theft. they just nailed the wrong guys they should be focues on the harvesters and others associated.

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Moron

4666 posts in 2526 days


#11 posted 752 days ago

I was once a hunter with a fair arsenal of weapons but have since traded them in for a camera and only shoot through a lens. I think Bob Taylor said it clearly. We, as the worlds biggest consumers and more importantly, woodworkers, have an obligation to preserve as much of the worlds natural heritage as possible.

-- "Good artists borrow, great artists steal”…..Picasso

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Tedstor

1369 posts in 1266 days


#12 posted 752 days ago

I don’t know much about the particulars of this case, but where is the US EPAs dog in this race?? The wood was imported.I didn’t realize EPA’s charter extended beyond US Borders. I would have thought that Customs had jurisdiction.

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1701 days


#13 posted 752 days ago

krisrimes-
Gibson was in possession of unsustainable material. They probably could have beaten the charges, but at what cost? Like someone else said, the government doesn’t do a cost/benefit analysis – they just keep throwing money. No business can keep up with them for long.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Rick M.'s profile

Rick M.

3883 posts in 1013 days


#14 posted 752 days ago

Gibson broke the law, admitted to it, were warned about it two years ago and continued breaking the law until the government stepped in.

-- |Statistics show that 100% of people bitten by a snake were close to it.|

View Howie's profile

Howie

2656 posts in 1556 days


#15 posted 751 days ago

So when Gibson needs to buy frets from china, all they have to do is ask for proof of where this thingies were made. It is not that hard.

It’s a well known fact China will lie about anything as far as where it came from. Try baby formula and drywall for a start.

-- Life is good.

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