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Forum topic by Ralph posted 739 days ago 3889 views 0 times favorited 51 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ralph

158 posts in 739 days


739 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: table saw steel city 35950 grizzly g0715p jet 708494k ridgid r4512

Hello to all,

Please bear with me…
A few months ago I purchased a RIDGID R4512- mainly for its low current draw on 120V. My shop is in a detached garage wired for a 120V/15A service. The run is long, and when I turned on the saw, the motor starting current caused the lights to dim. Not unexpected- but the fixture over the saw turned off completely, and I had to wait a couple of seconds for it to come back on again. I have since discovered that the line to the garage is 4conductor w/ground. So the rewiring to 240V will be easy. Any way, I was never really happy with the saw, and after about five weeks of hobby use, the motor seized! I returned the saw (have to love the HD).

Now that I know I can have 240V, I was thinking of getting the Grizzly G0715P hybrid. Read many review, few were bad, but most reviews raved about how great the saw is; and then it happened- I read that the Grizzly’s G0715P trunnion is the same as in the RIDGID I just returned. I know anyone can post anything on the internet, but it does give me pause. The nearest Grizzly is about a four hour drive from my home on Long Island, NY. I called Grizzly to clarify, and they were of no help.

So here is the $64 question- Does anyone have any first hand knowledge that the internals- specifically the trunnion- of the Grizzly and RIDGID are the same?

Meanwhile, I have been looking at these two other table saws-
Steel City 35950 1.75HP $1100.
Jet 708494K JPS-10TS 1.75HP $1350- at the top of what I’d like to spend.
Both have CI extensions.
Craftsman has a hybrid, but it has a granite top. As I am a real klutz, I’ve ruled out granite.
That’s what I’ve come up with so far. Have I missed a good candidate?

I don’t want to get a saw with more than 2HP because I would like to run other equipment, like the lights without dimming, a dust collector.

My interest is mainly hobby. I’ve built some kitchen cabinets, trivets, work tables. Some day I’d like to build myself an oak pedestal desk. My other half wants a built-in corner cabinet in the kitchen, and yes, more kitchen cabinets in the near future.

Any suggestions/information is most welcomed.

Ralph.

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...


51 replies so far

View SchottFamily's profile

SchottFamily

105 posts in 1098 days


#1 posted 739 days ago

I’m in the same boat. I had my heart set on the G0715P and then I started reading more and more reviews talking about the adjustment issue at different blade heights. It was crushing. lol I’m not ready to buy yet, so I’m still poking around.

-- IZZZZZI BoB IZZZZZI

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1959 days


#2 posted 738 days ago

Hey Ralph, couple of things. If the line to the garage is 12ga you might be able to increase it to a 20A circuit, if it’s 14ga you’re stuck with 15A. And just an FYI, when I first got my 3HP Unisaw I was curious how much current it drew so I measured it. No load it was in the 3A range, cutting some hardwood like oak it jumped all the way up into the 4, 5A range. :-) I have no idea what I’d have to be cutting for it to draw the 13A the nameplate states. So you might have some leeway.

You might want to consider used too, might get more bang for your buck. I’ve gotten some good old iron that way, made better and sometimes something I might not have bought new because of the price like my 12” Delta RAS. But I like to restore stuff too.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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knotscott

5374 posts in 1981 days


#3 posted 738 days ago

I suspect that your feeble 120v circuit may have contributed to the demise of the motor on the R4512. Running it on 220v may have prevented the “seizure”.

As for the trunnions….they do both look very, very similar, but that doesn’t mean the motors are the same, and just because they look the same doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re identical. The G0715P definitely adds solid cast wings, a steel t-square fence, and a full enclosure….a little nicer, heavier saw with a better fence. AFAIK, the alignment issues have been rectified on the G0715P….interestingly, many of the R4512 and 21833 models had similar alignment problems, which lends more credibility to the rumors that the trunnions are the same.

If you can get 220v 20 amp service, the 3hp G1023RL is a far more substantial saw than any you’ve mentioned, including the Jet hybrid… $1294 shipped. Look at the pics of those trunnions compared to the hybrid or contractor saws.

Here’s an exploded pictorial of the guts of the G0715P:

Here’s a pictorial of the guts of the Cman 21833, which are the same as those on the R4512:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View toolie's profile

toolie

1724 posts in 1234 days


#4 posted 738 days ago

stay away from the jet and powermatic brands. those tools are long on promise, short on delivery and pricey, making them really poor values. if you are thinking cabinet, griz 691 would be my choice as it’s innards quite closely resemble older unisaws. you mentioned steel city and the 35950 ( http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pdf/USA2012summer_lowres.pdf ) would be be my choice over any jet TS. anything between 1.5 and 2 hp will do anything you want to do provided it is aligned correctly and has the right blade for the intended operation. be careful about the temptation to always go the “more power” route in tool selection. i have 2 10” emerson electric built (one is 1.5hp and the other is 1hp) CI contractor saws and a 10” ‘72 3hp unisaw. the unisaw is presently on CL and i’ll be keeping the 2 contractor saws as they do what i want to do, including easily ripping 8/4 oak to build a mobile base for the uniaw. and if that wire to your shop is 10G, you can go to 30A which is what i have in my shop(if your wire is 12g, you’re limited to 20A) and i run my unisaw and a 1.5hp dust collector at the same time on the same 20A 220v circuit. contrary to what you may read on this and other forums, properly distributed, a little bit of power can go a long way.

good luck with your search.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View PurpLev's profile

PurpLev

8476 posts in 2254 days


#5 posted 738 days ago

here is the $65 answer – if you know you can have 240v -why stay with the hybrid saws at 1.5hp?

if I had 220, I’d just go with the 3hp saws that have much beefier cabinet mounted trunnion and are just a better build than the lighter hybrids all together at not much more $$$

I would personally look at used unisaws, or the griz 690 if you want to keep expense low.

-- ㊍ When in doubt - There is no doubt - Go the safer route.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1001 posts in 892 days


#6 posted 738 days ago

Seems to me your first order of business is getting the electric feed sorted out. What, EXACTLY, do you have running out there for wire? The answer to that is going to shape much of what follows. Your lights are dimming because you are running everything on one circuit, apparently.

I have a Steel City 35990. It’s a hybrid, not a cabinet saw, but it has cabinet mounted trunions, a granite top, and so far, after building all of my kitchen cabinets with it, I’m very happy with it. You’ll probably hear a lot of advice along the lines of, “Oh, you really want a cabinet saw…”, and if you’ve got the bucks, go for it. Just don’t get caught up in thinking that without one, you’re somehow diminished as a woodworker. A good saw will cut the wood you normally cut, and do it well. It should have a decent fence. Doesn’t have to be anything more than the stock fence if the stock fence can be adjusted square and locked into position repeatedly. Ease of use is obviously a factor. Once adjusted, your saw should transition easily from one cut to another. Without a lot of fiddling.

In your situation, if it was me, I’d be looking at spending a few bucks to get the electric squared away, spend around $700 on a saw instead of 11 or 12 hundred. I’d class myself as a serious hobby woodworker. I don’t build cabinets for sale to others (normally). I’m not a commercial shop. But as soon as I had a good table saw, I wanted my dust collector hooked up. And as soon as I started needing larger quantities of wood (kitchen cabinets) I quickly discovered how much cheaper it was to buy rough cut and get a decent planer. I only had a 60amp sub panel installed. My lights don’t dim when I start my saw or dust collector or planer.

I wish you happiness, but also see you putting the cart before the horse if you get another saw without first knowing exactly what you’re dealing with electrically.

View Ralph's profile

Ralph

158 posts in 739 days


#7 posted 738 days ago

BlankMan-
The line is 14gauge, actually that is what I was checking when I found the unused fourth (red) wire. Your comment about the actual motor draw is very, very, interesting; 240V@5A is just over 1.5HP of input power. That’s a lot of power! Good point, I’ll keep that in mind. BTW, were you using a thin kerf blade? As far as used saws, I have been checking Craig’s list, and either the saws are huge, or very pricey; like a few hundred shy of a new saw.

knotscott-
I don’t know… both trunnions look very similar… but then they are designed to do the same thing, so some similarity is to be expected. I’ll keep the 1023 in mind, especially in light of the measurements made by BlankMan.

Toolie-
My wallet does not stretch as far as a Powermatic, so there is no worry there. Thanks for the link to Steel City. One advantage of SC is that Lowes sells it- at least they are listed as a supplier, and CS saws show up on Lowe’s computer. Interesting point you make about required motor power vs. saw alignment. The new thin kerf saws require less power, and its cheaper to get a good blade than to get more HP in the saw. Again, BlankMans’ current measurements are very interesting.

PurpLev-
The unisaws I found – although I’d love to own an American made saw- were upwards of $2-2.5k, totally more than I want to spend. The grizzly is a possibility, but maxes out my wallet. That’s the whole issue, finding a saw within my budget.

Charlie-
Sorry if it wasn’t clear: I will have 240V@15A service going to the garage. I hear you about the saw and the woodworker. For some reason I equate “machine accuracy” with “cabinet saw”. You can tune up a saw up to a point and then it is out of your hands. In my former life I built kitchen cabinets with a Craftsman radial arm saw. The cabinets were European style, which made them simple to build. I also built the Corian counter tops. The radial arm saw was so bad that I used to spend a couple of hours adjusting the saw, and a couple of hours cutting wood. I don’t want to repeat that experience. By the way, that saw was originally wired for 120V; it used to bog down and then pop the breaker. I rewired the motor for 240V and the saw never bogged down again. I suspect the voltage at the motor terminals didn’t droop as much. Charlie, for me, a 60A service would be like going to heaven, actually even a 30A service would make me a very happy man, but alas, only a 15A service is in my future! Thanks for the good word on the Steel City saw.

ALL-
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TAKING THE TIME TO RESPOND.

It is great to communicate with more experienced woodworkers.

... and so the search continues. I’ll keep you posted…

-- The greatest risk is not taking one...

View cutworm's profile

cutworm

1064 posts in 1399 days


#8 posted 738 days ago

I’d go ahead and run a new circuit to your shop before buying anything. Run 240 60 amp service to the shop and install a breaker box in the shop. It it is more than 50’ to your shop go up 1 size in wiring. I’d go with #4 or #2 copper depending on the distance of your run. Measure the voltage with things off and things running. Voltage shouldn’t drop any more than 5% or so. If it does you need bigger wiring. With 14 AWG it’s a no brainer. Replace it.

-- Steve - "Never Give Up"

View ScottStewart's profile

ScottStewart

108 posts in 738 days


#9 posted 738 days ago

I was where you are at about 3 years ago. I am a garage guy, and anytime I would attempt a rip cut with my Craftsman contractor’s saw I would pop the breaker. It was stupidly frustrating and money was really tight.

The smartest thing I did was to get a sub panel put in the garage so I have all the power I want. (I did 95% of the work, had an electrician friend do the aluminum connections with the SER). I had to pass the test for the county so I could do the work. It was a lot of work, but we got there. Even with 15A@240V, that’s not a lot of juice to run both a table saw and a dust collector. Unless you don’t intend to be in your location very long, the best thing is to get the electrical to your shop figured out first. I justified it mentally by just calling it another of the big 5/6 power tools that I wanted.

I also think the Grizzly 1023 line looks like a lot of saw for the money. For a long time, that was the saw I thought I would grow old with. For the type of budget you are describing, it looks like the right way to go.

View NiteWalker's profile

NiteWalker

2709 posts in 1183 days


#10 posted 738 days ago

With 220, skip all the in-betweens and get a nice 3HP cabinet saw. Make sure the trunions are cabinet mounted. Steel city would be my first choice followed by grizzly.

-- He who dies with the most tools... dies with the emptiest wallet.

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1959 days


#11 posted 738 days ago

Ralph, full kerf, that’s all I use.

And that’s pretty common for motors not under load. The more it has to work the more power it draws, when not cutting all it has to do is overcome frictional losses.

240V @5A is just over 1.25HP for a 80% efficient motor, no motor is 100% efficient. So @3A it’s using ~3/4HP just to idle.

Cyclones and dust collectors are the exception, they’re always under full load when running so they’re always drawing nameplate FLA. So keep that in mind when sizing things and it probably be best if you run it at 240V also because of that so it’s not pulling its FLA on one 120V leg.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3057 posts in 1281 days


#12 posted 738 days ago

Ralph, I decided there were tools I wanted in my shop and I made provisions for those from the beginning. I installed a 100 amp panel with the spaces for my tools. I would recommend doing that from the begining. I planned for the maximum size tools I might want and installed those circuits as needed. I had the spaces designated.
I have gotten by with a cheaper Sears table saw for 30+ years. I have always felt that learning to use the tool and doing the best is important. If you have a better saw you can’t get sloppy. I had given up on ever owning a “better saw” because they don’t show up for sale in my part of the country. I went to an auction about a month ago and I bought a 5hp Delta Unisaw for $180. It is a 3 phase but I feel I can overcome that little deal. Even if I decide to replace the motor I got a good deal on the saw. Don’t give up on owning a big name expensive saw.

View toolie's profile

toolie

1724 posts in 1234 days


#13 posted 738 days ago

ralph….check your private messages.

-- there's a solution to every problem.......you just have to be willing to find it.

View dnick's profile

dnick

892 posts in 988 days


#14 posted 738 days ago

I got that craftsman. I was hesitant about the granite top, but after 9 months , I love it. Lot of good features, does everything I ask, it was an upgrade, I have nothing to compare it to, but I use this saw a lot & I am really happy with it. I am getting old, not having to clean that cast iron top is saving a lot of wear & tear on my bad elbow.

-- dnick, North Hollywood, Ca.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5374 posts in 1981 days


#15 posted 737 days ago

The jump from an R4512 to a G0715P (or any other hybrid) gets you pretty similar guts, power, and duty rating. The jump to a 3hp cabinet saw, not only gives you substantially more power, but much more substantial mechanisms under the hood, and usually a better fence….also, ~ 300# vs ~ 540#. I’m reititerating a little on my earlier statement, but I wanted to emphasize what a large step it really is. You don’t need a 3hp cabinet saw to do good work, but they are a lot more saw if you can swing it. When the budget approaches $1300, and 220v is available, IMHO it’s just good sense to at least give that class of saw some thought.

This pic is of the guts of the former Griz G0478 hybrid saw (all I have available as a comparison), which is reasonably similar to the R4512/G0715P, 21833, Jet Proshop, etc.:

Compared to the pic of the new G1023RL:

or the former G1023SL or older Unisaw should you buy a used one:

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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