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Glue the panels or leave loose?

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Forum topic by sphayden posted 07-23-2012 02:03 AM 1877 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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sphayden

25 posts in 942 days


07-23-2012 02:03 AM

Topic tags/keywords: frame and panel

I’m making a bed headboard, it’s a frame-and-panel design. There are 1” mortise and tenon joints in each corner and a center stile with a tenon that fits into the groove for the panels. Should I glue the panels also, or just glue the joints? Will it be strong enough if I just glue the joints?


14 replies so far

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 1722 days


#1 posted 07-23-2012 02:19 AM

In frame and panel construction, the panels should be able to “float” to minimize problems due to expansion and contraction.

In my personal experience, solid wood panels (i.e. raised) should definitely float, The majority of my flat panel doors are made with 1/4” (5.2mm if you insist) and I don’t concern myself too much about them. Plywood won’t expand and contract as much as solid wood.

When I glue up any frame and panel, I use a dab of glue in the center of the top and bottom rails to keep the panel from shifting if/as the stiles expand and contract.

If your panels fit loosley in the frames, use some space balls so they won’t rattle. Rattling is bad enough in a door, but would be truly annoying in a bed headboard.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3133 posts in 1329 days


#2 posted 07-23-2012 02:22 AM

The joinst should be strong enough. If you glue the panels they normally swell with humidity changes and push the joints apart. Leave the panels loose. Make some little silicone caulk drops about the size of BB’s. After they cure insert them into the grooves then install the panels. These will stop the rattle but they will compress if needed. Use then on at least 2 adjacent sides of the panels. Good luck with the bed. Post some pics when finished.

View pintodeluxe's profile

pintodeluxe

3360 posts in 1467 days


#3 posted 07-23-2012 02:25 AM

If you glue a panel at all, just glue a dab in the center of the panel. Do this at the top and at the bottom. This will keep the panel centered, and let the sides expand and contract. If you glue a solid wood panel in a frame, it will crack.

-- Willie, Washington "If You Choose Not To Decide, You Still Have Made a Choice" - Rush

View RetiredCoastie's profile

RetiredCoastie

999 posts in 1836 days


#4 posted 07-23-2012 02:29 AM

Same as above, don’t glue them, make sure they are slightly undersized and use silicone spacers to keep the panels from rattling. I’ve also seen panels with a drop of glue in the center of the panel top and bottom assuming the grain in the panel runs up and down, it allows the panel to expand but the panel stays centered.

-- www.thepatriotwoodworker.com Proud Supporter of Homes For Our Troops

View Arlin Eastman's profile

Arlin Eastman

2046 posts in 1215 days


#5 posted 07-23-2012 02:31 AM

One thing you can do to not ever have aloose panel is to use the little rubber balls or some of the very thin strips of rubber in the all around the panel.

Arlin

-- It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

View kizerpea's profile

kizerpea

746 posts in 1021 days


#6 posted 07-23-2012 11:54 AM

dont glue the panels..if u do .you will be in the den watching tv, an u will here a gun shot pow.thats the head board expanding.

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.

View MonteCristo's profile

MonteCristo

2097 posts in 842 days


#7 posted 07-23-2012 04:21 PM

Yup, the whole purpose of frame and panel is to allow for movement with humidity changes. Gluing the panels would go against the whole thinking that makes frame and panel a successful design.

-- Dwight - "Free legal advice available - contact Dewey, Cheetam & Howe""

View Nicky's profile

Nicky

636 posts in 2745 days


#8 posted 07-23-2012 04:29 PM

I’ve not seen this mention but a few dabs of silicone calking, in each side of the panel has worked well for me.

-- Nicky

View rance's profile

rance

4132 posts in 1814 days


#9 posted 07-23-2012 05:10 PM

Plywood panels: Glue them

Solid wood panels: Let em float

-- Backer boards, stop blocks, build oversized, and never buy a hand plane--

View BigYin's profile

BigYin

231 posts in 1070 days


#10 posted 07-23-2012 05:18 PM

I like 3/8 self adhesive foam strips to stop rattles. (some of the double glazing industry uses it)

-- ... Never Apologise For Being Right ...

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

1784 posts in 1147 days


#11 posted 07-23-2012 06:26 PM

Quote rance:”Plywood panels: Glue them

Solid wood panels: Let em float”

That’s the practice I’ve always followed…works well.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, we sent 'em to Washington.

View MrRon's profile

MrRon

2833 posts in 1897 days


#12 posted 07-23-2012 11:18 PM

If the joints are correctly made, plywood panels shouldn’t need to be glued. They should be treated the same as a solid wood panel; float.

View sphayden's profile

sphayden

25 posts in 942 days


#13 posted 07-24-2012 12:34 AM

Wow, thanks everybody for the input. I’m using 1/2” oak plywood for the panels, the good stuff from the plywood supplier (only three layers total). I’m going to go with the majority opinion and not glue them. That is what I would have to do if I had solid panels. Plus, I want to prove to myself how strong those mortise and tenon joints are. I will put the silicone beads in the grooves. Great idea.

View Dallas's profile

Dallas

2906 posts in 1141 days


#14 posted 07-24-2012 12:41 AM

Umm…. 3 layers in a half inch? I have luaun that has more layers than that.

I would expect 5 layers minimum and maybe 7.

-- Improvise.... Adapt...... Overcome!

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