Drafting programs or Good old pencil and paper.

i like to work out my design on paper with no dimensions just really trying to figure out what i want. then i go onto sketchup and design it with all the dimensions but i don’t really put any detail into it i just want to get a rough image so i can get some lumber and most of my thinking is while in the shop while i have the basics worked out to get me started, but i feel that sketchup can’t tell you what’s gonna happen in the shop so thats where i figure out most of my dimensions but its good to have the rough image and design from sketchup.

I began as a draftsman and really enjoyed the tactile aspect of the board and pencil. When CAD came along I got to play with it but I was not able to use it so much until the last 5 years. On my first project, a dresser for my newborn, I approached it like a machinist. The 3-D model and drawings I pumped out of my CAD program are LAW and there should be no changes in the shop. Yeah, right!!! I think I am going to have to go back to the drafting board for basic design, CAD for an overall model and a preliminary cutlist, and then expect to adapt to any changes in the shop.

Since I’m an old fart and learned the pencil method, I feel more comfortable with doing it that way.

Having said that, my whole career has been in computers and electronics so I often feel like I “need” to learn the “modern”way, but he learning curve on most drawing programs- including Sketchup- can be steep.

I’d rather spend my time in the shop actually making sawdust so out of frustration- I go back to the pencil and paper method.

Our fellow(?) Lumberjock- Betsy- has started a blog on learning Sketchup. I am looking forward to becoming more efficient by learning along with her.

Lew

... any chunk of scrap and a #2 pencil …if I can find it…

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

I grab the closest thing. I just have to get that picture out of my head or I want sleep. (anyone else that way?)

I have been using CAD sense age 8. ya, really. I am an Engineer by trade (or birth not sure). I have used just about every thing out there. I find that because CAD is exact it hinders my conceptual thinking. One reasons I like SketchUp is the “styles” feature. It helps control my OCD tendencies. Then I will go back and start over if it is a project where I need to figure in the width of the slides before I cut the draws for a large cabinet.

But I find my self re-designing pieces in the middle of a project. For that I use a print of the CAD drawing and a fine pencil to edit it. That way I can get the scale right.

But my favorite to start off with is a Sharpie (not the small one) and a large 22”x34” stack of paper. My wife thinks I buy those for the kids to color on. I have also use the oversize crayons to think about how pieces will overlap. And heaven help me if I am in the garage with a Sharpie when an Idea hits. Scrap wood, my hand, a 4×8 sheet of MDF, the walls,... nothing is safe. (anyone else that way? or am I a little crazy?)

-- ~jtd

Sharpie (or a #2) and plain white copy paper, and a fine metal ruler. CAD takes too long for me. I can draft out a room on paper in a short time. I’d have to learn CAD.

-- As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another. (Proverbs 27:17)

my own blood and the shop wall….

No no, pencil and paper, always.

-- Rob (A) Waxahachie,TX

I hate to be a heretic, but I rarely even use a pencil (except for marking a cut line). I pretty much just build from the mental picture. If certain dimensions are going to be critical because of what a piece is being used for, or where it is going, I’ll jot down a few notes, but that’s about it.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

I have no set method for design. If it’s real simple, I use the build it as you go/Charlie method. (no reflection on you Charlie, lol) Usually, I use a pencil and paper. I was a manual drafter for 10 years before we went to CAD in the mid eighties. If I have to figure a bunch of spacing and other dimensions to figure, I go with AutoCad or Sketchup.

-- Carl Rast, Pelion, SC

SKetchup for anything past a pencil mock-up.

I’m with teenage woodworker, I use SU to get the general concetp down and then head into the shop. I find I build it once on the computer and then really build it in the shop…it seems to save me a lot of figuring out stumbling if I’ve figured it out on the computer first.

-- ....next big purchase is wood for the next project, Mark

AutoCAD, Sketchup, Cabinetvision, MasterCAM, drafting board…in that order!

-- Women love me.....trees fear me

You can’t beat a pencil and paper for a quick rough drawing to work out the basic design.

Once you have that you can’t beat a CAD program for the final working drawings.

I use AutoCAD for speed (been using it for about 20 years), but trying to get the hang of Sketchup
for the “prettyness” of the 3D drawings.

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

I use any and all of the above…

-- There are three kinds of people... those who can count, and those who can't

I’m 97.2% (approx) with Charlie M. When something has to ‘fit’, I’ll turn to pencil and paper or an offcut of wood.

-- Res severa verum gaudium - True pleasure is a serious business.

Sketchup all the way baby.. got it on every computer I have, so it’s as accessible as pressing a button no matter where I’m at.

I like the fact that it’s fast and easy to start a rough idea, and complex enough to take it from there to detailing and precision later on – and most of all, you have a chance to tackle all those unknown issues, and all those joinery ideas – before you cut the lumber too short!!! and you can really dimension your work to fit any idea you have into any situation and space… and work the wood from that point on.

-- My Drinking Club has a Woodworking Problem...

It pretty much doesn’t matter what CAD program you use. The usefulness of CAD over pencil and paper is that it becomes historical. Once entered, the benefit is in the changes you make. You don’t have to redraw. You can change, modify, fit, redraw, whatever. Not so easy with a pencil and paper. One off stuff…don’t bother with CAD.

Persoanlly I use TurboCAD. AutoCAD is crap….totally counter-intuitive UI. One of the most difficult programs I’ve ever encountered. It takes 20 or 30 clicks or key strokes to get it to stop doing what I don’t want it to do rather than the 2 or 3 that Turbocad will do…. to do what I want it to do. (I also know it’s what’s been shoved down your throat that makes something easy after a bunch of years….so AC would seem easy to a long time user of it.) Never used SU, but, it probably beats the pants off of AC.

[This opinion is expressed by a one-time Software Quality Assurance Engineer…..that’s someone who tries to break software and fix the bugs.]

Bottom line…use a pencil…until some one says….wow…can you build me one of those… only I want it 2” longer….?!

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist

I use both; Mostly the pencil and paper first then Sketchup to flesh it out.

-- Chris

Pencil and paper. Called Pencil CAD.

-- Karson Southern Delaware karson_morrison@bigfoot.com

I’m with Karson & others but I’m going to try to learn sketch up.

-- Bruce from Central New York

I usually draw a rough, and I mean rough, sketch of my project and work from the picture in my mind. Occassionally I’ll draw a detailed drawing for complex designs.

-- Brian, Lebanon PA, If you aren’t having fun doing it, find something else to do.

Karson – Pencil/Pen and Paper Pad = PadCAD or Pcad

-- Gary, East TX -- The longest journey begins with a single step.

The bottom line really is if someone wants me to build one of those… only I want it 2” longer….. I’d just fire up my machines, no problem, rather than a CAD program. Probably a pencil. Later on a sander & some hand work up close. I mean, we’re building furniture here. I think that’s been done in the past very successfully without the help of software design. bbqKing

-- bbqKing, Lawrenceville

After reading all the responses, I found a lot of you like Sketchup. So, I decide to do some looking. I honestly expected to find a program that was highly priced and you needed a degree to use. WHAT A SHOCK!!!!!!! After downloading it and playing around with it, it’s my new favorite program. Highly recommend it. When posting this quesion, I was not expecting to found a new program. SKETCHUP ROCKS!

-- Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didin't do then by the ones you did. - Mark Twain

I used to do all of my design work on 22”x34” graph paper. It worked pretty well but making changes is a real PITA. For my current project, I started out doing a pretty detailed drawing on the graph paper. I started getting frustrated with the pencil and eraser making all the changes so I took the plunge into Sketchup. I am getting pretty good at Sketchup too although it took me a while. The project has every joinery detail worked out in the model. I like that because I am not running into things in the shop that I didn’t think of during the design. I have made a couple of design changes during construction but I have made the change in the model either before executing it or after depending on how radical a change it was. What I will end up with is an accurate model of a piece of furniture that can be re-produced or easily modified in the future.

In a nutshell, I find a lot of use in Sketchup. It gives me a tool to design both the aesthetic and mechanical parts of the piece before I cut wood.

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

I tried SU, then I hit the delte button and dumped it. It was to much for my short fuse to handle. So, I went back to pencil and paper or wood tablet.

Took Drafting / Architecture still like the pencil. As to chages I like the way I progress in my designs. It shows the process. I do enough on the PC to draw with my tracball.

-- Measure once cut twice....oh wait....ooops.

I use a pencil to get the “style” of the design (if needed). I then go to my SolidWorks; I realize it’s a little like duck hunting with a howitzer but it’s what I use at work, so I know it and can knock out a design with a cut list etc… in no time.
BTW, Gary “PCad” is a electrical design software so there might be a copy write issue.

-- Todd, Richfield MN

I downloaded sketchup and played with it a little but got frustrated. I am really a technotard. I can use Word and Excel fairly well and can mess around with some of the photo programs. I am that age group that heard about computers but never really got exposed to them till it was too late. I learned 35 years ago to draft plans and have done so with pencil, paper and drafting tools ever since. I should probably learn sketchup but am easily frustrated by my lack of ability with these blasted computers.

Mart

A pencil and sketchbook helps me figure out what I’m trying to build.
You would be surprised what doesn’t fit from your paper drawings.
Lately I have been learning Sketchup and the path iis long but rewarding after you get the basics figured out.

If you don’t have any drafting skills I might suggest you start out with sketchup to get a feel for 3 dimensions.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I get almost as much enjoyment out of drawing my projects as I do building them. I have many drawn and never started. I like to take my drafting tools camping with me, I can sit at a picnic table for hours after fishing in the morning, got to kept my priorities straight.

-- Ron Central, CA

I took 3 years of drafting in high school (many, many moons ago!) so I’m a pencil and paper guy. I’ll sketch using a standard #2 for the initial drawing, but have several colored pencils to “adjust” the sketch when things don’t seem to go the way I thought they would.

-- last night I played a blank tape at full volume - the mime next door went nuts!

I have Alibre Design but very seldom use it. Just way to accurate. Sketchup is simple and fast once you grasp the basics. I create a rough drawing and make changes to the SU drawing as I go then I’ll have the finished project saved for future use. I find sketchup great for calculating spacing and dimensions that look proper for a given project. has anyone tried www.go-2-school.com for sketchup tutorials. They are very helpful when learning this software.

-- Canadian Wood Chuck (Bruce)

What i don’t like about CAD programs is how impersonal a presentation they make.Twenty years ago i could look at a set of drawings and tell what Architect drew them. It told me something about the man’s style and personality. Now everybody looks exactly the same! Something important got lost in the change.

I often find my paper and pencil rendering gives me a distinct advantage over all the sameness. Because i deal with human customers. Thinking that drafting and design is about exactness and perfection is to lose sight of why a hand painted portrait is still more valuable than an extemely exact photograph.

-- miles125, Alabama.."Architecture is frozen music""

I use both. SketchUp – bah! Seems like way too much trouble to learn how to use. I use CorelDraw, primarily beacuse I have used it for years for technical illustration – started with Corel 3.0 – up to Corel 11 now. But I have yet to have any project survive intact from the CAD drawing phase to final build. There is always some niggly little thing that needs redimensioning or changes while building.

Usually, I print out what I have in Corel, take it to the shop and cover it with penciled corrections. Starting with a computer drawing makes any mods easier. While building my deck 2 years ago, I ran into a needed change about 80% of the way through. The LOML groaned in despair because she thought this would extend the project. Not so – I took the drawing, made a recalculation, recut two boards WITHOUT EVEN CHECKING THE MEASUREMENTS and they fit perfectly.

Whether CAD or hand drawn, there is no substitute for having a well-thought-out plan with dimensions before starting any woodwork. Of course, keep in mind that I am an engineer – that probably colors my thinking about the approach to any design.

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

My designs come out of my head. I want to spend as litle time in designing as possible. So I quickly pencil a drawing with outer dimensions. Then figure out the rest on the fly. Sometimes I’ll go back to the pencil to work out details. I use empirical dimensions while doing so.
Not a perfect system, just the one that works for me.

-- Kip Northern Illinois ( If you don't know where your goin any road will take you there) George Harrison

I do most of my design work in my head (NeuroCAD!), and go to pencil & paper to work out tricky dimensions, etc. I only use Sketchup for cabinet layouts, proportion, etc. Also, I use it for rough drawings to send over the Internet.

-- Robert from Raymond, MS. "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is therefore not a practice, but a habit." - Aristotle

For me it depends on how complicated the project. Many times I just sketch it by hand and start cutting. I almost always use a story pole to do the layout. The dimensions can be easily referred to and altered if needed. I use Autocad when doing more complicated and precision oriented projects.

-- Oldworld, Fair Oaks, Ca

Whichever is the quickest.

-- Grumpy - "Always look on the bright side of life"- Monty Python

plans?

-- Made lots of sawdust and pounded some nails. Haven't finished anything, though.

I’m learning Sketchup for several reasons – One – I can’t draw worth a darn; two – it’s helping me think through the building process; three – I’m bored to tears sitting on my bum waiting for my neck to heal; and four – I think it will help me waste less wood when I finally get back in the shop.

Computers have never been easy for me, so learning SU has even helped with that.

-- Betsy - GO BUCKS!

I spend most of my day at work in front of the computer so whenever I feel inspired I pull out the graph paper and whip up something. If I like it I then draw it up in Visio so I can get all the dimensions and cut sheets worked out. That way there is a saved electronic copy for when the paper copy gets stained, glued, lost or shredded…

If it is a complicated project I will also write out the steps I want to take, usually broken up into days since I only get a couple of hours shop time a day after work:
1. Assemble legs, glue up top, etc.
2. Shape & route legs, sand top.
3. Glue up table.

-- Rich, WNY, www.nyrockingchairs.com

I guess I’ll stick with pencil, & paper if I want to make something in a hurry, because I’m kind of slow at using

SketchUp, but I think I’ll keep on trying to get better with SU.

-- -** You are never to old to set another goal or to dream a new dream ****************** Dick, & Barb Cain, Hibbing, MN. http://www.woodcarvingillustrated.com/gallery/member.php?uid=3627&protype=1

I still have yet to master the art of Google Sketch Up, so it’s still the charcoal and cave wall (pencil and paper) for me.

-- Kevin

Darn caves around here sometimes fill up with water which makes me lose all my drawings. ;)

I like SketchUp as Scott indicated because I can work out both the aesthetics and the mechanics of a project. I can read my own pencil drawings but not many others can. Using SketchUp allows me to make images of a project that others can understand and allows me to identify things such as possible joinery conflicts as well as things like order of operations (“cut the mortises before you cut away the reference face, you idiot, Richards”)

For those who are trying to learn SketchUp, keep at it if you can see the benefits for your use. You will get faster and it’ll come easier with time.

Dave

-- Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

Just another pennies worth of my single-celled brain.

Clients [for some reason] are always impressed with hand drawn plans. Unfortunately, there are no checks when drawing by hand.

When I have something complicated to draw, CAD is the only way to go. When I draw one part and fit it to another and it doesn’t fit….it doesn’t fit. You won’t get that with hand drawing.

In the long run, drawing by hand is guesswork, but the computer won’t lie. If your angle is the slightest bit off, it will let you know. It will either be important to you or not.

-- arborial reconfiguration specialist