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Forum topic by Iggles88 posted 07-04-2012 08:14 AM 1042 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Iggles88

247 posts in 1085 days


07-04-2012 08:14 AM

Has anyone ever read this? http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/sharpen.html
For one it’s one of the most confusing things I’ve ever read and two he says a lot of things that are contradictory to a lot of things I’ve read about sharpening. I use a worksharp with the sandpaper or my worksharp with different buffing compounds on mdf disks depending on the work needed to be done to the blade. Does anyone have opinions on what this guy says? If what he says is correct my process is completely wrong. I get very very sharp edges so I’m not sure what to believe, I’m a perfectionist and I want to make sure I learn the benefits of all the different ways of sharpening.


15 replies so far

View ShipWreck's profile

ShipWreck

536 posts in 2477 days


#1 posted 07-04-2012 08:58 AM

I am not a master at sharpening, but all the research I have done over the past 6 months has led me to believe that there are about a millions ways to sharpen successfully. I have used sandpaper, waterstones, and now have a set of oil stones and all work very well. I started out with a MKII Veritas honing guide… and now do all my sharpening freehand. I have no idea just yet of what method I will stick with because I am having a lot fun experimenting right now.

I do not see any contradictions with the article…......just a different method.

V/R…..John

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Iggles88

247 posts in 1085 days


#2 posted 07-04-2012 09:09 AM

The contradictions I’m seeing is that free hand sharpening cannot get you as sharp an edge as with a jig. Also that strops not only don’t help but they hurt your cutting edge. Another thing that I guess isn’t a contradiction just that I don’t understand is he says not to grind all the way to the edge. There are a ton of different pages on that website if you read into it you’ll find things that you haven’t seen anywhere else

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ShipWreck

536 posts in 2477 days


#3 posted 07-04-2012 09:28 AM

I have had Brent Beach bookmarked for a few months. There isnt much there I have not read on other sites.
I do not agree with his theory on jigs. Jigs might be a great learning tool but can hurt at the same time. For instance….. I was getting mixed results with my MKII honing guide because I was not being cafefull when I was clamping the guide onto the roller consistently. It was a very small difference, but the blade was not registering to the stone the exactly the same every time causing extra work when honing. I finally said “screw it” and learned to sharpen freehand. Everyone will have their own opinions about sharpening as I already have formed a few of my own. I refuse to depend on any machine to do my sharpening for me other than roughing in with a grinder. Sharpening basic tools with a $200.00 – $700.00 dollar machine is foolish to me. It probably took me about 8 hours of practice to get consistent results honing by hand.

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RusticJohn

187 posts in 2316 days


#4 posted 07-04-2012 10:08 AM

I guess what he says is fine. I don’t bother with all that though. I always hold my blades by hand, never use a jig, and rub against coarse, medium and fine oil stones in the first instance. Then buff on a felt wheel on my lathe. From then on I resharpen with a fine natural Japanese water stone and buff on the wheel. Sometimes I just buff. In my humble opinion my cutting edges are top class so I feel my process is a good one. Cheers RusticJohn.

-- RusticJohn

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Loren

7809 posts in 2372 days


#5 posted 07-04-2012 11:05 AM

If you can shave the hair off your leg easily with the method you are
using, it’s working well enough for woodworking.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

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Rick M.

4347 posts in 1104 days


#6 posted 07-04-2012 01:19 PM

What he’s really saying, “To get the best edges, Brent Beach must build a jig and hone front and back bevels with each abrasive and if it’s true for me it must be true for everyone.”

I use a jig as well so I’m not condemning his method. Some people believe there can only be one “right” way to do something and that it just happens to be whatever method they themselves use.

-- http://thewoodknack.blogspot.com/

View sikrap's profile

sikrap

1058 posts in 2083 days


#7 posted 07-04-2012 01:24 PM

If you’re getting good edges, keep on doing what you’re doing. Personally, I use a jig, but that’s just my preference. I know guys that grind all the way to the edge and some that don’t. It all boils down to personal preference.

-- Dave, Colonie, NY

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Robert Brown

124 posts in 1416 days


#8 posted 07-04-2012 02:09 PM

Brent Beach’s information worked for me. I had a block plane from Big Orange which I could not sharpen until I read his stuff. I incorporated some of the things I learned there with scary sharp and finally got a sharp blade. From there I got a MKII to replace the jig I made. Later I got the Work Sharp 3000 with the wide blade attachment. I use the MKII, half on table and the other half on the disk. Basically I just mechanized what I learned from Brent Beach’s site.

This way works for me and as ShipWreck said above, “there are about a millions ways to sharpen successfully.”

View David Kirtley's profile

David Kirtley

1281 posts in 1722 days


#9 posted 07-04-2012 04:57 PM

Any time I hear back bevels, my BS detector goes off and I run away. Other than a quick way to bring back an edge, microbevels are a waste of time. If you want a higher angle grind, grind it that way. Nothing magical happens by having the last little bit at a steeper angle. The reset seems OK but a lot of over thinking and imaginative theory. The cap iron acting as as a heat sink was entertaining though.

People have been rubbing metal on abrasives for thousands of years. Other than speeding things up with machinery, nothing has changed in the last few hundred.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View Iggles88's profile

Iggles88

247 posts in 1085 days


#10 posted 07-04-2012 05:07 PM

I wasnt Trying to say he was wrong, I was just trying to see is what I’m doing is bad for my tools. My main concern was with where he said that grinding all the way to the edge is bad for your tools. Makes a few points 1. Grinding leaves a crooked edge 2. Coarse abrasives nick the edge 3. Grinding shatters the metal at the edge 4. Grinding can draw the temper…...i dont really understand what he means by dint grind all the way to the edge, if my primary is 25 and I am regrinding then how do I not grind to the edge? And also I don’t know if this is or isnt true but if it is i guess I better stop doing it and need to figure out how. My original post didn’t come out right

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David Kirtley

1281 posts in 1722 days


#11 posted 07-04-2012 05:27 PM

The point he was trying to make is that when you are grinding, the metal at the edge is much thinner and the heat cannot dissipate like it can where it is thick. By not grinding the final edge, it leaves more metal at the end to be picked up by the finer grits.

Yes, the scratches made by coarser grits leave a ragged edge. This gets evened out as you progress to finer grits.

Grinding shattering the metal at the edge? Well, theoretically, the microscopic grains of austentite. At a real working level (not stuff you could possibly see in a SEM) don’t worry about it.

You are never going to get the theoretical 1 atom width intersection of the planes of the bevel and the back of the blade. Even if you could, it would be worthless for cutting anything. It is not that hard to get an edge too sharp. Some bluntness is necessary to give strength to the edge. It will always have some roughness at the size of the grit used to grind it.

He is over thinking and over complicating.

-- Woodworking shouldn't cost a fortune: http://lowbudgetwoodworker.blogspot.com/

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15433 posts in 1292 days


#12 posted 07-05-2012 11:05 AM

If this statement is true, I get very very sharp edges, leave it at that. I’d be willing to bet it will be hard to find 2 experienced woodworkers who sharpen their tools exactly the same way.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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Iggles88

247 posts in 1085 days


#13 posted 07-05-2012 01:39 PM

Right I agree and I do plan on doing it the same way the only reason I brought this up is because going by what this guy says he says it hurts your blade in the long run and didn want to do that.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3544 posts in 2685 days


#14 posted 07-05-2012 01:50 PM

Loren, how did you know that I shave my legs? I’m afraid.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15433 posts in 1292 days


#15 posted 07-05-2012 02:57 PM

Iggles88, I would question what his definition of long run is, because any sharpening hurts tools in the long run. I have a craftsman block plane that typically got sharpened with a belt sander for close to 20 years. Its still going, although it basically hangs in my shop just for the memories now. It could easily go for another 20 years with the abuse, should someone decide to use it like that.

Bill/Loren, I’ve now got a plane related nightmare to look forward to!!

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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