pls believe Chinese plywood

What is the chinese wood telling me?

-- Glenn, New Mexico

I can’t tell if you’re trying to sell Chinese plywood through LumberJocks or if you’re just trying to say that Chinese plywood is better than people are saying it is.

-- Eric at http://adventuresinwoodworking.com

I’ve had good experiences with Chinese birch ply. It’s maybe
not as stable as baltic birch but it’s okay for a lot of work.

-- http://amherstcabinets.com - also a marketing consultant with expertise in direct response marketing for woodworking and online businesses - http://COPYMATCH.COM

Sorry, Miki. I can’t afford to buy any more chinese plywood. The sheets that I bought were glue-starved and delaminated like crazy. They were also terribly warped as a result. The upfront price was cheap, but the additional labor cost to use the stuff was way too high.

-- Furniture Medic- the prescription for damaged furniture

Nope. The “cabinet grade” plywood made by SamLingUSA was pure junk. And Lowes did give me my money back.

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

I buy Chinese birch plywood from the same hardwood distributor that I buy my furniture lumber from. I don’t know the brand, but I’ve had real good luck with it. 3/4” runs about $29 a sheet. Don’t know what they get for it at Lowes or Home Depot, but it’s been worth it for me. I’ve been using it for the cabinets in my new house. I use it for the basic structure of the cabinets then I cover it with 1/4” Ash plywood and it saves me about $20 per 4’ x8’ sheet. 3/4” Ash runs about $75- 80.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

it’s about $45-$55 dollars a sheet at lowes and home depot. and it’s not worth it.
When you cut it, it delaminates and warps like nothing i’ve ever seen.
If you want people to buy it and accept it as a quality product, then you need to institute better qualty control procedures.
I know grizzly tools has alot of there machinery made in china, my bandsaw was made there. It’s a good saw, but grizzly makes a point of using very good quality control procedures when making it.
Try that with the plywood and see what happens.

Watch out people, the dragon is loose and there is no stopping it. China is coming hard and fast.

-- Joey, Magee, Ms http://woodnwaresms.com

I recall a Chinese wood company representative posting here some time back. We were a bit rough on him, but he took it like a man and gave good answers. The upshot was that he said that Chinese companies could certainly make a better product, but the cost would be higher and they would have to be sure of a profitable market. Can’t blame them for that. The problem lies with American companies that demand the lowest possible cost and to heck with the quality. As long as this satisfies the majority of their customers (in dollar amounts), nothing is going to change.

-- Robert from Raymond, MS. "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is therefore not a practice, but a habit." - Aristotle

Is there anything wrong with grading the product in such a manner that the consumer can tell what grade the importer has purchased?

ie. A1, A B C, D, Borg etc.

The Far East market must begin to do this or they will most certainly lose their market share and quickly.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I made a trip to the lumber yard today and was educated a little more on the grades of China birch that the county is selling. This yard carries C-1 grade, which means it’s birch plys through out. A C-2 would be birch on the outside and who knows what on the inside. The salesman told me that most of the big box stores are carrying an E-? grade, which is the stuff that is rolling up and full of voids. The grading system is a little different than the US but I don’t think the big box stores know what they’re selling anyway.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

Tenontrim:

I don’t care if the boxes have no clue, I just want some way to see what I’m paying for.
If it takes legislation so be it.
I believe in free enterprise and capitalism but not in deception.
Let me be the one to make the chioce of quality.
Interesting that the offshore guys have an standard that apparently the borgs are not willing to share with us.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

I guess the answer, Bob, is to buy from a yard that will tell you what you’re getting. Like I said originally, $29 for a 3/4” 4×8 isn’t bad. If you can’t find out what you’re buying at one store, go where they will tell you.

-- Tim -- http://tmuli.com

bob and Tenontrim:

yeah , both of you said the truth . the people whoever work on buying do should know what they have pay for . that make the buyer feel worthy to buy it. here , we do .

-- Everything is possible!

Actually, I DID find a use for some Chinese plywood that looked more like a longbow than sheet goods <chuckle> If you cut it into 6” squares, it makes great gussets for sawhorse legs!

Not much else, though… It’d take a lot of sawhorses to use it up.

I’d rather pay a little more. Like you, Bob, I just want a way to know what I’m getting.

-- Robert from Raymond, MS. "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is therefore not a practice, but a habit." - Aristotle

All right Miki, since no one has, I’ll ask the obvious question here.

Why make that low of grade of finished plywood in the first place?

It is unfit for any use, cabinets, toy chests, book cases, that I can see.
It is unstable, full of voids and the veneer is paper thin.
If it gets wet it becomes a breeding ground for fungus, both imported and domestic.

Personally, I do not believe the buyers here are being told the truth about the China grading system, specifications or quality. Not that they would care until the law suites started flying…

The bottom line is that the communist Chinese have a documented history of flooding the U.S. and world markets with dangerous products, like toys with lead based paint and toothpaste containing diethylene glycol (DEG). DEG is used in antifreeze and as a solvent.

Why should we believe their “Cabinet Grade” plywood is any different?

-- .

The other thing to remember here is that our local supplier (Lowes) is stocking the “Maple faced 3/4” cabinet grade, SamLingUSA” brand…and they still do today. It’s what we get. It’s what they (Lowes) ordered. It’s not your brand; whatever your brand may be. And it cost me $55.00 per sheet.

I agree that some Chinese brands have to be better and I believe that anything would be better, but the only choice we have at this time is not to buy the stuff!

-- Bob Vila would be so proud of you!

Miki, in all fairness to you, I would be willing to give your stuff a try. What brand is it marketed under, and where can I get a few sheets?

-- Furniture Medic- the prescription for damaged furniture

well , firstly , the low grade plywood is a little part people’s action . secondly ,how can we scale the “low grade ” plywood ? maybe they just produce that kind of plywood according to your price . or we can say your price just worh that kind of plywood . I am not sure my views can satisfy u . but i will privide the product worth your pay.

-- Everything is possible!

”well , firstly , the low grade plywood is a little part people’s action .”

I don’t understand. Who’s reaction and what are they reacting to?

”secondly ,how can we scale the “low grade ” plywood ? maybe they just produce that kind of plywood according to your price . or we can say your price just worh that kind of plywood .”

That wont fly Miki. It is either cabinet grade plywood or it isn’t cabinet grade plywood.
What is being sold as cabinet grade is nothing more than interior grade plywood with a very thin veneer.
The question is; Was it ordered that way or did you simply deem us not worthy of cabinet grade like we ordered or did you decide you would cut costs on your end by changing your grade specs. to suit your fancy?

”I am not sure my views can satisfy u . but i will privide the product worth your pay.”

Your views towards your customers are obvious.
I can and do buy domestic plywood. I pay much more for it than yours. It is high quality, and worth the cost.
So why aren’t you making and selling a comparable quality product that meet OUR specifications?
Obviously there is a market for this product or it wouldn’t be produced.

-- .

BroDave,
”I don’t understand. Who’s reaction and what are they reacting to?_

u can’t assure everybody is righteous. so someone wanna own benifit from this kind of way. that is little people’s action.

some one wanna low price but high quality ,don’t u think that is possible? price and quality is direct proportion . this is turth nobody can change .*

if high quality can at so low price , then general quality can at what price??

-- Everything is possible!

Chinese plywood has now flooded the market so throughly with low quality products that it is very difficult to find good plywood. American mills are shutting down. What’s happening to us!!!!

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

Just say NO ! ..until proof

-- Never board, always knotty, lots of growth rings

Look, I saw this when it originally was posted 116 days ago. I resisted responding then. Now I won’t.

The last plywood I saw at HD I rejected immediately. The plys were separating as the plywood sat on the shelf. I don’t know what it was, but it was certainly NOT plywood. So I didn’t buy it.

And that is the key; if it is shit, then DON”T BUY IT! Moreover, make sure that you call the store cluck over and explain exactly why you aren’t buying it. Then, find the department sales manager and tell him why you aren’t buying it. Then, locate the e-mail address of the CEO for HD (OK, maybe I am stretching here) and tell him why you aren’t buying it.

And, Miki, sorry if you are caught in the middle, but: if the only example of Chinese plywood that we see in the states is the kind of shit that I described above, then our opinions of Chinese plywood in particular and Chinese products in general are going to be exactly what you have read here. Are the Chinese so infatuated with the almighty dollar that they are willing to destroy their reputations by selling cheap shit into the US. If so, then they rightly deserve the reputation they are getting!

-- "Find out what you cannot do and then go do it!"

so far i have not had good luck with chinese ply and i will not use it again unless i get a really cheap customer.

-- Roper - master of sawdust-

My suppliers sell cheap, but usable plywood. It has its uses but the stuff passed off at HomeDespot and lowerthanLowes is pretty much junk. I’m afraid to build with it. Why do we keep shopping there? It isn’t the prices. Sure some stuff is cheap, but they sure make up for it with the little bags of 10 screws for $1.35.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

I ended up finding a local ply dealer who does nothing but plywood. It costs $10 more a sheet for domestic A1 grade Maple plywood than the HD or Lowes crap stuff and I will never buy plywood from anywhere else again. I could actually see the thickness of veneer on this plywood and I am not worried about sanding through the top level anymore.

-Rich

-- Rich, WNY, www.nyrockingchairs.com

On my trips between Gainesville Florida and the U.P. I often stop at the Frank Miller Lumber Company in Union City IN. (www.frankmiller.com) They are located about 55 miles NW of Dayton.

This great “candy store” for woodworkers is now selling high quality domestic and imported plywood. HD and Lowes can go pound sand.

-- "Heaven is North of the Bridge"

I have to ask . . .

Is there a way to look at the plywood edges, facing, etc. to judge the grade of birch or maple plywood we are about to buy? What should we look for? What should we ask? I am assuming what I would be looking at wouldn’t be de-laminating and have voids which are obvious indications of poor grade.

Rufus

-- Always remember half of the people in this country are below average.

Also check the thickness of the face veneer. The cheaper grades are almost impossible to sand. Then again in lots of cheap furniture and cabinetry it is noting more than a picture of wood.

-- http://www.woodsongsfurniture.com

I as many have made the mistake of buying this less than acceptable plywood, warpage does not begin to describe that material it is horrible and I agree if we stop buying the JUNK! hopefully it will go away soon.
Maybe the Chinese will discover we want a better product and they are wasting thier time sending it here to the US.
Just my 2 cents.
Jim

-- A duck that brags on his own pond, soon swims alone.

This is a blant commercial poster..
she has no projects just commercials please delete this fool..

-- Bruce

Maybe as Americans, we should just suck up the extrat 10-15$ and buy American made plywood. I am just plain sick and tired of hearing people complain about jobs and manufacturing being sent overseas, and then turning around and seeing the same people buying cheap foreign crap. I know eveyone has to think about the bottom dollar, and every dollar counts, but supporting our country keeps the money in our economy. How good can plywood being made on a barg off the coast of California be anyway. You don’t think thay are actually making that stuff in China do you?

-- http://www.efcabineture.com/ "Experience is what you get, when you don't get what you want"

http://www.patriottimber.com/panelprod.htm

Click around on the map and see where the Patriots live LOL

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

Chinese ply bought 1 shit… I mean sheet and it warped like crazy post cutting – so now its kindling for my campfires – works great there.
That is all

-- Doc Hanson - www.ripnchisel.com

So here’s my question. I am going to be building a work bench and a couple of tool carts. The plans call for 3/4” plywood, maple or oak. At my local HD the oak is $51.00. At my local Sanford and Hawley it is $98.00. Is it really worth that much more to go with the local store’s brand? Thanks.

-- Chip -- Manchester, Connecticut

I suppose it depends on wether the plywood is the same or one is more suitable for the application than the other.

Personally, I have never seen oak plywood at HD that wasn’t warped, damaged or full of voids. Maybe it’s just my local HD. Not being familiar with Sanford and Hawley I can’t comment.

I can tell you that the local lumber yard for me is Huges Hardwood. It is where the cabinet makers in town shop and their plywood is a little more than HD (far less difference than your example above) but is consistently high quality. For $98 I can get a full sheet of sapele plywood at Hughes. Oak and Maple is about $50/sheet.

-- Scott - Chico California http://chicowoodnut.home.comcast.net

I think the only thing I’d be interested in buying from China is Melamine. They seem to have an abundance of the stuff. Melamine baby formula, melamine dog food . . .

My shop is full of China-made, Taiwan-made as well as non-Asian made tools and supplies. My only buying criterion, be it plywood sheets or a power tool, is what kind of quality I’m aiming for. For scrap jigs, prototypes, etc. I reach for cheap stuff. For my final projects and high-end pieces, I take out my quality tools and materials. When I built my arts and crafts bookcase, I paid top dollars for the sheets according to my budget. I believe the point here is not whether China-made goods or sheets should be avoided or not, the point should be how much your budget can afford. If you can, avoid the lower grade stuff, made in China or not. We all know, goods made outside Asia can just be bad as well. Someone commented about shopping at HD. I don’t shop there because the quality of service there is poor (well almost non-existent). I am willing to pay a little more for the same sheet of plywood elsewhere I can get good service or advice. It’s no different from not buying cheap China-made products.

Btw, I have had a hard time understanding the central message Miki was trying to convey in her posts.

-- The time I enjoy wasting is not time wasted

I’ve been reading this thread for a while and thought I’d chime in. What Miki is saying is she sells plywood and will try very hard to meet your expectations if you want to try buying from her. Her responses about quality loosely translated are “If you buy the cheap stuff that HD sells then you get what you deserve. It’s cheap because that’s the grade they’re willing to pay for and also seems to be the grade that American consumers are willing to buy.”

So in essence, You get what you pay for.

IMHO…why anyone would expect to find cabinet grade plywood at a big box store is beyond me. They don’t market to craftsmen, they don’t advertise their product as cabinet grade, and they certainly don’t charge the price you’d expect to pay for cabinet grade. So where’s the problem?

It’s kind of like people digging through 2c hardwood because it’s 50 cents per bf and complaining that it’s not FAS.

Now in Miki’s case, she’s just like anyone else trying to sell something. If she has a product that she’d like people to believe is high quality she needs only to tell us where we can find it so we can see for ourselves. Another thought might be for her to send a couple samples out so we can review it. Has anyone personally contacted her an asked for a sample? Just a thought…

-- Allen, Milwaukee, WI