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Looking for advice on using automotive rubbing compounds to rub out a finish

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Forum topic by Brian Havens posted 151 days ago 388 views 2 times favorited 10 replies Add to Favorites
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Brian Havens

57 posts in 343 days


151 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: finishing rubbing compounds automotive rubbing gloss meguiars random orbit high speed buffer polisher polishing buffing

Has anyone experience with using automotive rubbing compounds to rub out a finish? In particular, the Meguiar’s line of products?

Polisher: random-orbit vs. high-speed
The most confusing issue for me has to due with using a high-speed/rotary buffer vs. a random-orbit buffer (a.k.a. in the auto detailing business as a “DA” or “Dual Action” buffer). From what I have read, I assumed that the random-orbit is merely less aggressive and less likely to cause certain problems, like swirling. As such, and because I have one (yet unused), I planned to use the random-orbit. But, when I received my order, the Meguiars #1 and #3 state on the back of the bottle “for use with a rotary polisher only”. Why? What should I use with the random-orbit polisher?

Finishing Schedules
It is not difficult to find articles on rubbing out a finish that mention the use of automotive rubbing compounds, but they seldom go into much detail about the specific products they use. And when you look at how many formulas and buffing pads that Meguiars offers, it is overwhelming. Here are the two schedules that I have found, and plan to try (in order of use):
1) Mequiars #1 medium cut + Meguiars #3 machine glaze
2) Mequiars #1, medium cut + Mequiars #2, fine cut + Meguiars #9, swirl remover.

I would enjoy hearing from anyone who has used either of these schedules, or has used another with success.

-- If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, who will cut it up into bowl blanks?

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Quixote

118 posts in 175 days


151 days ago

Brian,

This could turn out to be one of my short answers that takes about four pages…

From my experience, I built and finished woodwork pieces in custom vans back in the early 80’s. My primary job was the custom paint work on the outside, the woodwork was simply a bonus.

What you use depends entirely on what finish you want to achieve and where you are starting from.

Your assessment of the difference between a a dual action polisher ( random orbit) vs. a high speed or variable speed buffer is absolutely correct. I’ve used both, my preference and the only recommendation I’ll make for woodworking is to use the random orbit, or DA polisher.

My issues with the rotary buffer involves it’s tendency to burn through your finish and actually scorch your corners before launching your work into the next zip code… Or the heat generated with a high speed burnish that is expected to dissipate on an automotive application will actually blister your finish, causing a rework setback that is very time consuming.

The random orbit buffer is not recommended on automotive finishes for the medium cut product because the slower gentler action does not “break down” the polishing grit in the compound. This is important, more in a moment.

Compounds typically have either a water soluble base or a petroleum base. Be careful that your choice does not have a reaction with your finish.

Years ago in the automotive world, Lacquer paint was the standard finish. to achieve a high gloss and high definition of image (DOI), or depth of reflection, several coats of lacquer paint were applied, the solvent evaporated out, and the paint dried. The spray guns applied the paint in very fine droplets but left a paint surface / finish that was similar to the peel of an orange. Additionally, because the volatile organic compounds in the solvent evaporates out, the paint surface often had microscopic pores that reduced the gloss of the finish ( Imagine your living room carpet and how poorly it reflects images.) New urethane finishes and clear coats in the automotive world greatly reduce these issues,but the principles are similiar.

To achieve a high DOI, the finish had to be leveled, often with progressively finer grits of wet and dry sandpaper. As late as 1980, the finest grit paper you needed or used was a 600 grit paper. This left the surface relatively flat, with tiny scratches. Here’s where your compound comes in…

An automotive polishing compound is designed to break down into smaller or finer particles during use. the effect is like having a piece of sandpaper that starts out as a 400 grit that changes itself into a 2000 grit paper while you’re using it. There’s an old rule of thumb that I still teach apprentices that the “compound cuts while it’s wet, but begins polishing as it dries”. This is true whether you are using a wool or fiber wheel or a foam pad.

The next step take up where the prior step left off, essentially starting to cut at a 2000 grit stage and finishing out to around a 3000 or finer finish. This leaves an ultra smooth but still ‘warm’ finish. The highest definition of image is achieved with a swirl remover or final glaze that fills in the tiniest of scratches for a ‘wet look’.

If you are using a polyurethane finish, I recommend a light wet sand with progressive steps of 600, 1000, 1500 to 2000 grit automotive paper, and your second option of medium cut, fine cut, and either swirl remover or their finish hand glaze, or yellow wax.

Q

-- I don't make sawdust...I produce vast quantities of "Micro Mulch."

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Kipster

1070 posts in 290 days


151 days ago

Amazing what you learn at LJ’s

Thanks for the question amd well written answer.

-- Kip Northern Illinois ( If you don't know where your goin any road will take you there) George Harrison

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Chris

1259 posts in 528 days


151 days ago

Brian,

Thanks to Blake I found this just the other day.

Select this link:
Woodworking Channel

Then, just above the mini video screen scroll to “woodworking 101s”, then on the right scroll down to “Polishing Tabletops” by Andy Ray. I found it to be helpful.

Also, Take a look at this from Wood Shop Demos

-- Chris

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John Gray

882 posts in 422 days


151 days ago

Quixote is exactly right I painted (lacquer) in the ‘80’s and that’s how it works. We would get a 36” finish meaning that you could read all the numbers on a yard stick, held perpendicular to the surface, in it’s reflection in the paint/polish.

-- Only the Shadow knows....................

View CharlesNeil's profile

CharlesNeil

88 posts in 407 days


150 days ago

and excellent question..with a excellent answer..after 40 years of finishing…I couldnt have said it better…excellent….One add…rubbing out to a gloss is easy …rub till its like glass….rubbing to lesser sheens is harder..one strokewith compound does one thing 2 do something else(more gloss) to get a matte or semi gloss or,satin sheen to be even is extremly difficult with compounds….try sanding in the higher grits..ie 1200 to 1500 for a semi..800 to 1000 for a satin..then buff it well with a simple paper bag and add a coat of wax….always sand with the grain..as so well stated..its the amount of scratch that diffuses the light to give the desired sheen..and using sandpaper..keeps the scratch consistent and allows for an even sheen..Just my 2 cents

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EdC

427 posts in 377 days


148 days ago

Quite a lesson on finishing!

-- Ed Collinge- Edmonds, WA.

View Brian Havens's profile

Brian Havens

57 posts in 343 days


147 days ago

Thanks to Quixote, et al, for the expert knowledge.

I do not have a project targeted just yet. I know that this will become an issue at some point, so I want to try out the techniques on some sample boards. This way I will not be tempted to try risky, new techniques on a project nearing completion. I think I now have enough information to start experimenting on the sample boards. (Perhaps I should start a new topic on my blog that follows my progress.)

-- If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, who will cut it up into bowl blanks?

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JerryS

32 posts in 147 days


147 days ago

The reason Meguiars suggest a rotary for those polishes is do the the fact the random-orbit buffer does not generate enough speed or heat to break down the abrasives in the polish . ( I spent 15 years detailing ) You can still use the DA , you might have to work the product longer to get the abrasives to break down and then again they may never . Meguiars #80 would work fine with the DA . Something to consider while using #3 , its a glaze , meaning it fills in the imperfections it does not remove them . They also tend to leave a greasy feel behind . ( I don’t know how #3 is , I never used glazes , I don’t care for them ) Keep in mind these polishes are meant for Automotive type finishes , I would start out using the least aggressive polish (compound) first and work up from there , also the type of pad you use comes into play . IE fine pads (Polish pad ) verses a course pad (Cutting pad) again start with the least aggressive pad and go from there . Good luck with your project . BTW a product that would work great with your DA is Poorboys World SSR line , it comes in 4 different grades , SSR 1 , SSR 2, SSR 2.5 & SSR 3, the latter being the most abrasive . (SSR 2.5 or SSR 2 is a good all around polish (compound as you refer to it ) If you have a hard time finding it PM me .
Regards Jerry

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Brian Havens

57 posts in 343 days


147 days ago

Thanks, Jerry!

It sounds like “glaze” in the auto detailing world serves the same purpose as paste wax in the furniture world. I wonder if it would be better to forgo the glaze in favor of a high quality paste wax (e.g. Renaissance or Liberon).

BTW, I was planning to use the “Soft Buff” polishing foam pads. I figured anything with “cut” in the name would be too aggressive. https://www.meguiars.com/?pro-pad/Soft-Buff-Foam-Polishing-Pads

And I am checking out the Poorboy products.

-- If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, who will cut it up into bowl blanks?

View Bob #2's profile

Bob #2

2081 posts in 558 days


147 days ago

Great stuff and so condensed. It removes a lot of my misconceptions .
I’ll be a better finisher now thanks.

Bob

-- A mind, like a home, is furnished by its owner

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