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Tire Jumping Off Powermatic PM1800 Bandsaw

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Forum topic by Woollymonster posted 692 days ago 1856 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Woollymonster

23 posts in 742 days


692 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: bandsaw pm1800 powermatic

Ok, here is the latest in the operation of this problematic Powermatic PM1800 of mine:

Yesterday I was ripping some 8 ft. 8/4 soft maple with a 3/4” Timber Wolf blade set at 6 TPI. After sawing a couple of boards the blade started a big gyration death wobble. I shut the motor off immediately and hit the foot brake.

After further inspection, the upper tire had jumped out of it’s tract was sitting on the wheel lopsided and about half way off the wheel. During the course of ripping 10 eight footers, the tire jumped out of its track twice more! Wow! How dangerous is this? Not to mention time and aggravation.

Here is what I do know:

- The upper/lower guides and trust bearings where set properly.
- The blade was properly tracked.
- The blade was properly tensioned. (I experimented with this using factory and Timber Wolf methods).

Walter Meier is closed today so no help there. Also, no reference in the manual. Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Woolly


16 replies so far

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

3186 posts in 2461 days


#1 posted 692 days ago

Are they urethane tires, rubber tires that are glued?
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View MrUnix's profile

MrUnix

387 posts in 700 days


#2 posted 692 days ago

If the wheels are co-planer, properly crowned and blade alignment/tension is correct, then the tire has probably been stretched a bit and needs to be glued down. Most of the tire glue sold at woodworking shops is 3M 5200 and can be found at most hardware/big box stores as well.

Cheers,
Brad

-- Brad in FL - To be old and wise, you must first be young and stupid

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

208 posts in 1822 days


#3 posted 692 days ago

I “think” that is a T-track “safety tire” which is not supposed to have to be glued, short term I would glue it but it soulds like it has stretched and will need to be replaced. The fact you didn’t mention how hard it was to get back on nor the trouble of taking the wheel off each time tells me the tire is now too big.

View SCOTSMAN's profile

SCOTSMAN

5023 posts in 2086 days


#4 posted 692 days ago

Man thats bad news and unsafe too I would advise according to age of the bandsaw to take it up with the company as this is not acceptable.If it is simply older machine and worn then I would glue them down or replace them. Alistair p.s. safety first these things cause the old heart to flutter.

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

208 posts in 1822 days


#5 posted 692 days ago

That saw hasn’t been available long enough “need” new tires unless it has been used in a production environment or damaged. Most likely a warranty issue if it is still within the period. The potential issue there is the PM1800 as well as their 20 and 24” bandsaws are part of their “Industrial” line and only have a 1 year warranty, but I am pretty sure he hasn’t had it that long or used it near enough to have an issue.

View stefang's profile

stefang

11820 posts in 1835 days


#6 posted 692 days ago

Hi Woolly, sorry to hear the bad news. I still think it might be axle angle problems or maybe wheel alignment. It sounds to me like your blade dragged the tire off because it isn’t running straight up and down. Wheel alignment problems are usually solved by adding washers to the wheel furthest in to bring it out bring it into alignment with the other wheel. I don’t know if these fixes can apply to your particular saw.

-- Mike, an American living in Norway.

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SCOTSMAN

5023 posts in 2086 days


#7 posted 692 days ago

Surely thought to be fair if the saw is a recent purchase he shouldn’t need or be expected to add washers/repair it in any way.Is it just expected nowadays to get shoddy goods and repair them I kind of hear this with Chinese junk but this is a known brand item.Alistair

-- excuse my typing as I have a form of parkinsons disease

View oluf's profile

oluf

254 posts in 1540 days


#8 posted 692 days ago

While I do not think it has any bearing on this problem, I think your saw is overworking with the blade you are using. 6 TPI is way too fine a blade to be using to rip 8/4 stock. You are trying to drag a lot of sawdust through the kerf in those small gullets.

-- Nils, So. Central MI. Wood is honest.Take the effort to understand what it has to tell you before you try to change it.

View Woollymonster's profile

Woollymonster

23 posts in 742 days


#9 posted 692 days ago

I think 6 TPI is ok for this stock. Standard rule of thumb that I have always used (and read everywhere) is 6-12 teeth in the stock at all times. Since the stock is just under 2”, it should be fine. But I do have a 4 TPI blade I can try. Both are 3/4” wide. The stock pushed trough without much effort. Suffolk Machinery says this blade is for 3/4 to 2 1/2 kiln dried hardwood. The dust was handled easily by the collector with no build up on the table or under the stock. Seamed ok to me. No resin build up, etc.

Thanks for all the replies and suggestions. I will let you know what Walter Meier says about it on Tuesday. These Taiwanese machines are nothing like the old Powermatics. I have had nothing but trouble with this machine and its getting to the point where I hate using it because I know I will have to shutdown and fix or tweak it. You can read my review of it if you are interested.

I bought this machine on 4/4/2012. It is less than 2 months old and I do not run a production shop. I’m about ready to ask for my money back.

Thanks,
Woolly

View AHuxley's profile

AHuxley

208 posts in 1822 days


#10 posted 692 days ago

Those blade TPI recommendations are VERY high for ripping. Domestic hardwoods rip best with a 3 TPI for 4/4 through 12/4 stock, if the 4/4 is milled then a 4 TPI should be used. Exotics need a slightly less agressive blade due to their hardness, in the boave cases 4 TPI and 6TPI. BUT none of that caused your issue, this is a TIRE issue not some other factor, I have only seen two factors in tires coming off, 1 for non-T track tires was glue failure or no glue or 2 a ruined tire, if the tire can be put back on relatively easily with the wheel still on the saw the tire is way overstretch, look up installing a bandsaw tire and see what effort is required to get one of these larger thicker tires on. I think some people might not appreciate the type of saw you have based on the responses to possible causes, these tires should be WAY hard to pop off, especially since the PM1800 is a relatively low wheel speed saw.

As I think I mentioned in your review IF you can get your money back, run don’t walk to buy a Italian made 20-24” saw (Minimax, Agazzani or Laguna) they are much better built and they are and have been the steel framed standard of bandsaws for 70 or so years, and based on what you said you paid actually cheaper! My Minimax will eat a PM1800 for lunch. The other option would be to buy a used US built cast saw from names like Oliver, Northfield, Tannewitz or Yates, again less money more saw, but they are heavier and bigger so that could be an issue.

View bleorgh's profile

bleorgh

17 posts in 757 days


#11 posted 691 days ago

Throw a framing square on the table tongue side up. See if there’s a slight twist in the blade. Sounds to me like you are binding in the blade somewhere thus tracking the blade off. I know what I’m saying is a no brainer but never hurts to re examine the situation. Also…. on a funny note…. tried to cut up venison steaks one year with a bandsaw…bad idea….. grease… what little there was completely threw the blade into a “screw-you-ity” state and it never would track properly again.

-- The minute my 42" Crick level LIES I'll kiss your ass !

View kizerpea's profile

kizerpea

746 posts in 868 days


#12 posted 691 days ago

gasket shellac cement is what i used on my old 12in crartsman when i put new rubbers on..ace hardware proy has it.

-- IF YOUR NOT MAKING DUST...YOU ARE COLLECTING IT! SOUTH CAROLINA.

View Woollymonster's profile

Woollymonster

23 posts in 742 days


#13 posted 691 days ago

Hux,

Thanks for the tips. I will give it all a try.

All else,

To answer some of the other post; when I put the tire back in the track (it was only part way off) I did not have to take the wheel off. I was not that hard to get back on and I thought to myself that it was a little loose in the track. I have nothing to compare it too. I have never changed a tire on a wheel this big. If fact, I can’t ever remember changing a tire on a bandsaw at all. The lip that is on each side of the wheel (most of the width of the wheel is the track) seems very shallow to me and the tire seems thin. I don’t see this problem being fixed with glue or different blades. I think, just by looking at it, that it will never stay put even with a new tire. I could be wrong but chock up another design shortcoming from the “new” Powermatic. The thing just looks too flimsy.

I will start trying to contact Walter Meier on Monday if they are open. I am also going to start the process of trying to get my money back and get a Mini Max like some of you more experienced sawyers have recommended. Now the ordeal of getting this beast back to the dealer. What a nightmare! I will be glad when it is over.

Thanks,
Woolly

View Woollymonster's profile

Woollymonster

23 posts in 742 days


#14 posted 688 days ago

Here’s an update from Oscar Meyer on my Problematic PM1800 (detect any sarcasm?)

Anyway, talked to a tech and he said that anytime a tire comes off, even once, then you have got a bad tire. He said the tire should not come off regardless of the blade used. He agreed to send me out two replacement tires. I asked him the best way to install the tires and this is what he said:

- Do not use an adhesive
- You do not have to take the wheel out of the saw to put the tires on.
- Clean the wheel tracks.
- Heat the tires with a heat gun or hair dryer and put them on.

This guy sounded like someone that was taking a lot of grief all day every day. I asked him why these tires would be bad on a brand new saw and what made him think the new ones would be any better? He got a little defensive and really did not answer the question. “What do you want me to do?”, he said.

I very calmly replied, “If this does not fix this problem once and for all and you don’t come up with some fixes for some of the other design issues, then I want you to give me my money back”. He said that would be up to the dealer that sold me the saw. I said really? Is that what you want me to put on the forums and internet blogs?

So the saga continues. Stay tuned. I think they are going to try to stick me with this thing and getting my money back will probably require a law suite. I have learned a lot about band saws in the last two months. I wish I had known these thing before buying the Problematic. I wish I had a Mini Max sitting in my shop…

Woolly

View ShipWreck's profile

ShipWreck

536 posts in 2253 days


#15 posted 688 days ago

Wooly…... forget the heat gun. Warm water will give you a nice even temperature. Heat guns are not the best way to go.

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