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Wall oven cabinet and power connection

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Forum topic by Charlie posted 05-18-2012 04:32 PM 3277 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Charlie

1100 posts in 1749 days


05-18-2012 04:32 PM

I have to build a cabinet for an electric wall oven. The oven will be 8 inches from the floor. Kinda like a wall oven under a countertop but the countertop is a bit above standard height. To the right of this cabinet is a wall. To the left are floor to ceiling cabinets that are 1 foot deep.

I want to use some of the space below the oven for a shallow drawer for storing baking sheets.

There is a full basement below. What I’d like to do is pass the oven pigtail through a hole in the floor and into the basement and make the electrical connection right there between the floor joists.

Anyone know of a reason NOT to do this? It just seems like it’d be a lot more accessible than laying inside a cabinet and trying to contort into a position where you can both SEE and make the connection. In the basement it’d be right there. Easy to see and work on.


15 replies so far

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#1 posted 05-18-2012 05:28 PM

In my humble opinion, I believe it is against all housing codes that I know of to pass portable cable through a wall. The pigtail would be considered portable cable, even if it is 220VAC. I believe you have to have a properly wired receptable within the same area as the stove.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#2 posted 05-18-2012 05:29 PM

Sorry, let me clarify. That would be floor, wall or ceiling.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3256 posts in 2138 days


#3 posted 05-18-2012 05:36 PM

I don’t know of a reason why this wouldn’t be okay. I think you need to keep the hole small. If you left a large hole in the floor it would draft like a chimney in a fire situation. You would want to treat this like the scuttle hole going into your attic.

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#4 posted 05-18-2012 05:44 PM

The main reason it is against code is portable cable is not double sheathed or UL approved for wall or floor passage, like romex, which is. You’ll get away with it, but if the owner ever sells, a sharp home inspector would knock it down in a heartbeat. Unless it’s low voltage, like speaker wire, I don’t believe it is legal anywhere.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

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Grandpa

3256 posts in 2138 days


#5 posted 05-18-2012 05:55 PM

We pass wiring from the attic to the living area every day. As long as you meet code when doing that would this not fall in the same area? Use conduit if it is required in your area or Romex if it is allowed in your area. We have junctions in the attic and basements of our homes that service wall receptacles in the living area. Why would this not be the same?

View Tennessee's profile

Tennessee

2410 posts in 1977 days


#6 posted 05-18-2012 06:04 PM

Grandpa:
He stated that he wanted to run the pigtail through a floor. Pigtails are like what come out of ovens, dryers and other 220VAC appliances and are portable cable, single sheathed with a very pliable plastic. All cable used for house wiring is either double sheathed like romex or inside a metal sheath of some sort, like steel BX cable. (the stuff with the metal coil around it, and plastic sheathed wires inside.
I just do not know of any code anywhere that allows for portable cable, ie. pigtails, to be run through a floor, wall or ceiling. I was a trained electrician in the military, and did 28 years of industrial maintenance, but I’m not a residential electrician. Still, I am familiar with a lot of codes.

-- Paul, Tennessee, http://www.tsunamiguitars.com

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 1749 days


#7 posted 05-18-2012 06:19 PM

OK I should clarify this a bit. The “pigtail” is entirely encased in BX. It’s a flexible metal conduit. I have regular #10 4-wire with ground wire running up from the basement through drilled holes and that’s entirely within code.

Currently there is 10-4 “romex” coming from the breaker panel, through holes drilled in the floor joists, all the way across the basement, and then up through a drilled hole into the lower portion of the CURRENT oven cabinet. In that cabinet, the wire run from the basement is terminated in a metal, surface mount box. The flexible metal conduit from the oven (that I referred to as the pigtail) makes its connection in that metal surface mount box.

What I’m proposing is to simply move that metal box directly below the new oven cabinet location, pass the ARMOR cable through the floor and make the connection there, rather than in a kitchen cabinet.

Make more sense?

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4451 posts in 3423 days


#8 posted 05-18-2012 07:04 PM

From an ergonomics point, 8” above the floor is SUPER LOW. If ya have any way to rethink the dimension, I’d do it.
Open door, bend over, hit with blast of hot air in the face, reaching down to pick up anything hot from the oven.
Just my thoughts.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 1749 days


#9 posted 05-18-2012 08:02 PM

Bill,
Appreciated, but oven door at 8 inches is about where it is on most ranges. I know what you’re saying though, because right now it’s about at waist level. It was going to get installed below the cooktop. When you do that, the oven door handle is about sitting on the floor, but lots of people do it anyways. We can’t because what we found out is that you can only mount certain cooktops over certain wall ovens. I’m glad because I would have absolutely hated it mounted that low. Installing it 8 inches off the floor puts the bottom of the countertop at 36 inches. So depending on how thick the walnut countertop turns out, we could have a counter height there of 37 inches or 37-1/2. I wouldn’t do that throughout the kitchen, but the countertop in this case is just 1 cabinet wide (30 inches or so).

This was a compromise as originally we were going to have a shallower cabinet there with just the toaster oven and microwave and storage above and below. If we don’t do this oven cabinet, we need to buy a range and get rid of the gas cooktop and electric wall oven. We’re trying not to spend that $2500 on a range. If I have to buy one, it won’t be a cheap one.

Personally… I’d rather hit the Roth if necessary and get the Bertazzoni range I wanted, but it’s HER kitchen (even though I’m the cook until she retires…. hehehe)

View RussellAP's profile

RussellAP

3059 posts in 1749 days


#10 posted 05-18-2012 08:19 PM

All ‘plugs and junction boxes’ must be accessible. Seeing that this is a built in oven, I’d just run a new line from the fuse box directly to the oven and use the breaker for killing power. Forget the pigtail and make sure the connection at the back of the oven is super tight, and no wire nuts.
An easy way to determine what is code in your area is to call the city and ask for the codes dept. They’ll tell you what’s acceptable and what is safe.

-- A positive attitude will take you much further than positive thinking ever will.

View Bill White's profile

Bill White

4451 posts in 3423 days


#11 posted 05-18-2012 08:35 PM

Gotcha Charlie. Guess I didn’t completly understand the install.
Don’t know about the Bertazzoni. I’ve done most of the others. Pics??
Usually there is a code requiring a certain distance from walls to ovens/cooktops. Check that out too.
Bill

-- bill@magraphics.us

View DS's profile

DS

2151 posts in 1883 days


#12 posted 05-18-2012 08:51 PM

I can only speak from my experience, but, I would never do an oven install that wasn’t “by the book”.
Anything less can open you up to liability even years down the road.

There are codes for minimum and maximum open door elevations and minimum clearences to combustible surfaces. Typically, there is a junction box in the oven cavity space for the pigtail to tie into. There are codes/specs for that too.

Most of the installation requirements will be spelled out by the oven manufacturer in an installation guidebook. This should be required reading prior to attempting this design/install.

My $0.02

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

View Sawkerf's profile

Sawkerf

1730 posts in 2531 days


#13 posted 05-18-2012 10:04 PM

You need to get a licensed electrician involved here. It’s all about the coge in your location. Doing a non-code install exposes you to possible liability somewhere down the road.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1100 posts in 1749 days


#14 posted 05-18-2012 10:22 PM

Yeah I’m going to have an electrician in to add some lighting, move some outlets, add some outlets. The toaster oven and the microwave both “suggest” their own 20amp circuit so I have plenty of room in the panel…

Minimum install height of the oven per the manufacturer is 4 inches from floor. I’d be doubling that. The oven is internally insulated. The exterior shell has spacers on it that won’t allow it to fit into a space that’s too small (assuming of course you leave the spacers on and I have no intention of removing them. It’s in a totally wood cabinet now so I’m not bustin’ any minimums or anything like that. The physical placement of the oven is totally on the up-and-up. It was just that connection I was thinking about.

Time to call an electrician. :)

I’m almost hoping someone tells me I can’t have an oven door open in such a way that it impinges on a doorway opening. If THAT happens, we’re out of options and we buy the Bertazzoni. :)
Here’s the Bertazzoni
I can get it locally.

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Sawkerf

1730 posts in 2531 days


#15 posted 05-20-2012 10:39 PM

Those “suggestions” for separate circuits for toaster ovens, microwaves, and dishwashers aren’t just suggestions here. They’re code.

-- Adversity doesn't build character...................it reveals it.

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