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Tongue and Groove without Match Plane?

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Forum topic by carguy460 posted 05-17-2012 07:21 PM 1192 views 0 times favorited 16 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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carguy460

782 posts in 1000 days


05-17-2012 07:21 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question joining

I’m preparing to build a wall mounted plane till, and I’m going to glue up a fairly wide panel for the back of the till. I’m leery just jointing and gluing the boards together, so I’m thinking about tongue and groove joinery. Problem is, I don’t own a T&G plane set…is there another way to do it? All I have are hand tools, so the router bit solution isn’t for me…

Thanks in advance for any assistance!

-- Jason K


16 replies so far

View Newage Neanderthal's profile

Newage Neanderthal

190 posts in 1215 days


#1 posted 05-17-2012 07:42 PM

easiest way i have found is with a plough plane and two supplementary fences. no sup fence clears the back, the thinner one clears the middle, the thicker one clears the front so if you were using a 1/4 in blade you would need a 1/4 and 1/2 thick fence. Always work with the plane on the front of the board when doing this or they wont line up, but that is the same with match planes

-- www.newageneanderthal.blogspot.com . @NANeanderthal on twitter

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1311 posts in 1474 days


#2 posted 05-17-2012 08:17 PM

Table saw ! Very fast and accurate.

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

782 posts in 1000 days


#3 posted 05-17-2012 08:28 PM

Newage – I hadn’t thought of that…probably because I don’t have a plough plane yet! If I could get away with cutting T&G with it like you describe then I wouldn’t need to seek out a match set…

cabmaker – thats what my dad told me, but the only table saw I have is an old Disston D8 that I set on the dining room table once, so it was a table saw for a few minutes…

-- Jason K

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chrisstef

10918 posts in 1671 days


#4 posted 05-17-2012 08:31 PM

Just glue it brother … or you could use a shiplap joint but the glue will certainly hold. If you’re really nervous about the glue up you can use battens on the back (a board screwed all the way across the glue joints).

-- "there aren’t many hand tools as awe-inspiring as the #8 jointer. I mean, it just reeks of cast iron heft and hubris" - Smitty

View Loren's profile

Loren

7618 posts in 2313 days


#5 posted 05-17-2012 08:33 PM

Make a cutting gauge… like a very heavy duty marking gauge
with a knife instead of a pin. You can cut the tongue shoulders
with this tool and a knife.

For the groove, use the cutting gauge to define the sides
and chisel out the waste. Repeat as needed to get to depth.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View ITnerd's profile

ITnerd

261 posts in 1264 days


#6 posted 05-17-2012 09:39 PM

Hey Jason, here’s a second vote for chrisstefs shiplap joinery suggestion. Not quite as easy to glue up as T&G, but a heck of alot easier to get done – you can even do it before you cut your boards to length if you have a long enough guide bar (ie straight 2×4) lying around.

Just need a straightedge to clamp down and whatever plane you have around that cuts its full with – Stanley 10, rabbet/shoulder plane, etc. Add some Titebond III, the wall will come apart before the Till does.

-- Chris @ Atlanta - JGM - Occam's razor tells us that when you hear hoofs, think horses not zebras.

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15053 posts in 1232 days


#7 posted 05-17-2012 09:48 PM

I’m in the “just jointing and glue” group. If the board are seated properly when you glue, the joint will be plenty strong enough. If it breaks, it will not be on the glue line, which means it would break even if its T&G.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View tenontim's profile

tenontim

2131 posts in 2409 days


#8 posted 05-17-2012 11:03 PM

+3 for joint it square and and glue it. I’ve made about 40 tables over the last 10 years and that’s the way I join the boards for them. They’re all still together.

View carguy460's profile

carguy460

782 posts in 1000 days


#9 posted 05-18-2012 01:48 PM

Great responses from everyone, thanks for the input!

Loren – I like the cutting gauge idea…I may keep that in my back pocket.

Looks like the best option is shiplap or joint and glue…I’m hearing that joint and glue will hold up, and I’m lazy and in desperate need of a plane till, so I think I’ll go that route!

Thanks again for all the help everyone!

-- Jason K

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1358 days


#10 posted 05-18-2012 01:52 PM

I like Christef’s shiplap idea. You could cut the rebates with a rebate plane or whatever you have with a nicker. I’m planning the same treatment of a case I’m working on right now. I’m firing up the router, though:)

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15053 posts in 1232 days


#11 posted 05-18-2012 02:15 PM

I’ve never had much luck gluing ship lap joints. I find it hard to keep everything even. I find I need to make sure everything is precise, much more than a normal glue joint. Ship lap is a joint meant to allow movement without leaving an opening. I have glued T&G, but only if the material was already T&G’ed (as in using hardwood flooring for a back panel)

And not to knock any else work, but I’ve had one panel crack bad after gluing it that I know of, and that was one I put a board screwed all the way across the glue joints. Its on a cabinet I built many years ago in my bathroom. It annoys me every time i’m in there. I knew I knew better when I did it.

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1358 days


#12 posted 05-18-2012 02:17 PM

I slotted a screw for my hickory French Bottom in my cherry nightstand. The screw pulled right through, 1st season. I try to never underestimate wood movement but I always seem to. I’d be real leery about gluing anything on a solid rear panel.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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carguy460

782 posts in 1000 days


#13 posted 05-18-2012 02:21 PM

Now I’m getting concerned….how should I attach the back to the sides of the till? I was going to cut a dado 1/2 inch or so in from the back, and then use a 1/2 in horizontal board on the very back to screw through to the wall…I’m thinking that I don’t know what I’m doing all of a sudden…

-- Jason K

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sikrap

1023 posts in 2024 days


#14 posted 05-19-2012 07:10 PM

I suggest you rabbet the back edges of the top, bottom and sides. Make the rabbet the same depth as the thickness of the panel for the back. If you have a rabbet plane, this should be very quick and very easy. Drill some slightly oversize holes in the back panel and nail to the top, bottom and sides. You want the holes slightly oversized to allow for movement.

-- Dave, Colonie, NY

View Don W's profile (online now)

Don W

15053 posts in 1232 days


#15 posted 05-19-2012 07:24 PM

Jason, I have always done it like Dave describes except I have never had to drill over sized holes, although doing so is probably a pretty good idea. Nails tent to give to allow for movement.

If your hanging the till by screwing threw the back, and you’re worried about weight (probably not an issue for a saw till)run a cleat across to spread the load. Don’t glue it or fasten it in any way other than the screws to hold it to the wall.

Doing a dado as you described would essentially be the same thing, except the board on the back wouldn’t be as strong, but it also wouldn’t be visible, so it has its benefits. I’m a little confused where that board would be in relationship to the back panel, so if its behind it, just make sure you don’t glue it to the back panel and it should be good. I think you were on the right track (assuming I truly understand what you were going to do).

-- Master hand plane hoarder. - http://timetestedtools.com

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