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One step veneer over a chamfer... nope!

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Forum topic by gpop posted 810 days ago 1289 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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gpop

12 posts in 900 days


810 days ago

Topic tags/keywords: question veneer cedar router chamfer

This is my first serious veneering.
Cedar veneer over plywood. This is for a bed with drawers below.
Being new to veneering anything this big, I have been really sweating how to approach it exactly. I’ve done smaller veneering with balsa on a 12×8x6” keepsake box… this is is different animal altogether because of the sheer lengths, and the 1/4” chamfer stymies me completely.

How can I get good adhesion on something that’s more than 6 feet long? I’ve dreamed up contraptions to try to press at a 45 degree angle, but more to the point… where do I begin???

This much I know so far. I tried to do it in one step on the [see pic] test piece, but cavities formed just below the chamfer, and the chamfer itself ended up looking like a round-over, and felt like it was hollow due to the cavity that eventually formed there too?

Anyone care to impart some wisdom?


15 replies so far

View DS's profile

DS

2131 posts in 1023 days


#1 posted 810 days ago

Have you tried a vaccuum press and bag?

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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DS

2131 posts in 1023 days


#2 posted 810 days ago

There are some large production cabinetry companies that use a very expensive membrane press to make raised panels for cabinetry doors from Particle Board and Veneer. I’ve seen it in Red Oak and Maple.
There are limits to the crispness of edges, but uniform high pressure seems to do the job okay.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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gpop

12 posts in 900 days


#3 posted 810 days ago

mmm, while I would love to have a vacuum press for many applications; I’m afraid that finding the required equipment in my present location is not within time/budget limitations. I’m an expat living in Argentina, resources are limited and/or too expensive to consider. The solution to this will have to be something home-grown. More in technique as opposed to technology.

If, instead of a chamfer I go with a round-over, this would not be as much of an issue; but the veneer will not “fold”, it just curves into and out of the chamfer. This is why I was wondering that perhaps if I did it in strips, one at a time, but which should come first? Chamfer-edge-face? Then I worry about splitting and snagging when I trim the excess from the chamfer as it is only 1/4”.

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DS

2131 posts in 1023 days


#4 posted 810 days ago

If you have ANY solid material in the cedar, you can band the edges wide enough for the champher, then, veneer the face. Follow this by routing the champher into the underlying solid peice. It will look very clean.

-- "Hard work is not defined by the difficulty of the task as much as a person's desire to perform it.", DS251

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Pdub

889 posts in 1783 days


#5 posted 810 days ago

I’m with DS251. Veneer the face and band the edges,then you can route any edge you want.

-- Paul, North Dakota, USAF Ret.

View Lee A. Jesberger's profile

Lee A. Jesberger

6646 posts in 2582 days


#6 posted 810 days ago

Hi

You can use TiteBond Glue. Paint the plywood, and the back side of the veneer with the glue. Let it dry completely. Then iron it on, using a household iron on medium heat. Heat an area, and using something hard, like a veneer hammer, press the veneer down. Work small areas at a time.

This is a rather brief version of how to do it, but test it out on small scraps first. It’s pretty easyto do, and quite permanent. Here’s a link to me doing it on a entertainment cabinet.

http://prowoodworkingtips.com/Building_a_Small_Entertainment_Center_pg._2.html

Lee

-- by Lee A. Jesberger http://www.prowoodworkingtips.com http://www.ezee-feed.com

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levan

397 posts in 1582 days


#7 posted 810 days ago

plus one on lee’s sugestion

-- Lynn "If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right". Henry Ford

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gpop

12 posts in 900 days


#8 posted 810 days ago

Just now, I set the face. I am using contact adhesive (which is not my first choice, but what’s generally used here for veneers), loaded the backside up with the old CRT, a full cabinet of CDs/books, and my wifes’ treadmill (finally getting some use out of that thing!). I hope that will be enough weight, there seemed to be some bubbles despite going over them with an extra wide scraper. This is bare veneer, no adhesive side.

I will follow up with the advice, thank you all for your input!

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bondogaposis

2446 posts in 954 days


#9 posted 810 days ago

I don’t think you can realistically bend veneer around a sharp angle like a chamfer. If you had used a round over you could do it but not a chamfer. I think DS251 has the best solution.

-- Bondo Gaposis

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gpop

12 posts in 900 days


#10 posted 810 days ago

True, certainly not a 90 degree, that’s why I tried a test piece first to see if it would bend around a 45… I mean, if it can be done, then why complicate things. I thought there might be a chance. Sadly not.

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gpop

12 posts in 900 days


#11 posted 810 days ago

Spent the last 2 hours getting the bubbles out of the 9 square foot face with an iron in one hand, and the blunt side of a spoon in another (no veneer hammers in Argentina… among other things).
It’s times like these that I miss the advances in tools and materials we have in North America, but hey, you learn from doing right?
@ Lee – Does this method strictly work with Titebond or can it work with generic vinyl based glue? This is a cost consideration because while there are some Titebond products available on the free-market, the price is outrageous as it is an import (US$20 for a 16oz sound right?). I’ve been heating up the contact adhesive and it’s working right, butI gotta say, I’m woozy from the fumes :P
This is going to set overnight and tomorrow I will take care of the chamfer.

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

4843 posts in 1401 days


#12 posted 810 days ago

You could hammer veneer it with hide glue.
It has been working very well for a couple of thousand years.
The best idea would still be a solid edge but if you piece it up the sequence would be edge, chamfer, face smallest to largest. it would hammer veneer easily that way with virtually no special equipment and of course if you do mess up it is completely reversible unlike contact cement.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View Loren's profile

Loren

7265 posts in 2250 days


#13 posted 810 days ago

Hide glue in N. America is usually casein glue. It’s pretty
similar and derived from milk I think.

For the iron-on Titebond method:

You want a PVA glue, preferably one rated for hot pressing.
Don’t fixate on brand names because they vary from country
to country. The cheaper consumer glues like Elmer’s in
N. America have cheap fillers in them. Elmer’s is fine for
joinery and I use it, but for hot pressing it crystallizes due
to fillers which would be a red flag in your application. Even
regular Titebond I is not rated for hot pressing and will
crystallize in hot press veneering but there is a version
of Titebond II rated for hot pressing.

Track down the data sheets for the various industrial PVA
glues available in your country and look for the ones rated
for hot pressing. Then try to find out if there is a version
sold to consumers in small containers.

In N. America the version of Franklin’s industrial hot press
PVA glue is “Titebond II Extend”, a white glue. The yellow
color of some PVA glues is dye and has nothing to do with
working characteristics from my research, just branding.

P.S. I agree with Paul M, the easy way to do it without
a vacu-forming hot press machine is with solid wood edging
shaped to the profile you want after gluing. You can
veneer the face of the panel before or after edging but
usually before is good.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View shipwright's profile

shipwright

4843 posts in 1401 days


#14 posted 809 days ago

Loren, the hide glue I use is from Milligan and Higgins and is the real article
It’s made from scratch in Johnstown NY.

-- Paul M ..............If God wanted us to have fiberglass boats he would have given us fiberglass trees. http://prmdesigns.com/

View Mathew Nedeljko's profile

Mathew Nedeljko

585 posts in 2432 days


#15 posted 809 days ago

Nicely done Paul…a fitting addition to Friendship.

-- Aim high. Ride easy. Trust God. Neale Donald Walsch

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