LumberJocks

Grizzly G0715p problem-blade parallelism changes with elevation

  • Advertise with us

« back to Power Tools, Hardware and Accessories forum

Forum topic by ROBZ71LM7 posted 04-30-2012 03:39 AM 2738 views 1 time favorited 30 replies Add to Favorites Watch
View ROBZ71LM7's profile

ROBZ71LM7

11 posts in 1122 days


04-30-2012 03:39 AM

Hey everyone… been lurking for a while and I have an issue with my new table saw. I ordered a 715p new from Grizzly a little over a month ago and finally got to play with it today. I had aligned the blade parallelism to within .002” runout with the miter slot. When I made my first cut today I found a problem. My blade goes out of parallel as I lower it by more than .020”! It toes out to the left as it is lowered. It’s actually more than .020” as I obviously cannot measure the full blade length as it goes below the table with my Woodpecker gauge. Raise it back up to the top and its perfectly parallel. Any ideas on the fix? Haven’t called Grizzly yet, because it’s a Sunday. I’m past the 30 day return period, been too busy at work, but I still have the warranty of course.


30 replies so far

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1095 posts in 1190 days


#1 posted 04-30-2012 09:53 AM

I returned an R4512 that was doing almost the same thing. Except mine would “kick right” at the back of the blade as soon as I started raising it. And go back as son as it started being lowered. I’d still call Grizzly.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

6142 posts in 2279 days


#2 posted 04-30-2012 12:02 PM

The guts of the G0715P are very similar to those of the Ridgid R4512 and Cman 21833, which all have several similar reports of alignment problems. It might be possible to align it and leave the blade height set, but I’ve yet to read about someone actually fixing it.

My understanding is that Grizzly is aware of the issue….I’d be uneasy if they tell you otherwise. Contact them and see what they’ll do. The best solution I’ve seen yet is to upgrade to a G1023RL, G0690, G0661 or G0713, all of which cost more, and some of which require 220v. Otherwise, unless they have a new fix to offer, your options are to return it (on their nickel), and buy a different saw. Good luck and please keep us posted.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View ROBZ71LM7's profile

ROBZ71LM7

11 posts in 1122 days


#3 posted 04-30-2012 11:34 PM

Made a call in to Grizzly and their tech was totally stumped and an advanced tech is supposed to call me back soon. Evidently this is a common issue with this saw. Once I get through all the layers and escalating I’m going to as for a refund or the right to upgrade to a real Grizzly cabinet saw.

Charlie, Mine kicks to the right as it is raised or to the left as it is lowered.

Here’s a couple videos:

Here it is with the blade high:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U7amj8sCrE&feature=youtu.be

Here it is with the blade lowered:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmGy3SOrmU&feature=youtu.be

View david_larch's profile

david_larch

98 posts in 1206 days


#4 posted 05-01-2012 02:26 AM

I have this saw, as well. Just got it about a month ago. I actually emailed Griz before I ordered it and asked if they had addressed the issue. I was told that they had in fact addressed it at the plant and some such. I have not had the problem, but asked the question just in case I got into your situation. As Knotscott mentioned it is pretty widely known about in Grizzly. Best of luck, I have been happy with the CS at Griz and hope you get treated right.

-- www.alibiwoodworks.com

View ROBZ71LM7's profile

ROBZ71LM7

11 posts in 1122 days


#5 posted 05-01-2012 12:20 PM

What’s the date of manufacture on yours? I think I got an old one. i ordered 3/2012 and mine was built 2/2011.

View gillyd's profile

gillyd

136 posts in 1550 days


#6 posted 05-01-2012 12:28 PM

Same thing happened to me.

http://lumberjocks.com/reviews/2137

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1095 posts in 1190 days


#7 posted 05-01-2012 12:46 PM

ROBZ71LM7,

Yup. On my R4512 the back edge of the blade would kick right when raised and go back to the left when lowered.
When you raised the blade, it would be in its “kicked right” configuration. As soon as you stopped applying “up” pressure on the height adjust wheel, the back of the blade would go left. It was an issue in the height adjust mechanism and Rigid told me it can’t be adjusted out. They said I could take it to a repair center and they can fix it under warranty. Well the repair center they referred me to was about 2 hours drive, but …. so I called and they said they stopped doing business with Rigid warranty ( they claimed Rigid shorted them on payment regularly ) so essentially I had no service center. I ended up returning it.

If Rigid had sent me the parts, I’d have repaired it myself as I really liked the saw, but if it won’t make repeat cuts for me then it’s kinda useless. And Rigid would not send me parts to fix.

Hence the Steel City. :) which is also a very nice saw and has cabinet mounted trunions which I didn’t think was a big deal until I had them. heheh

View northeaster's profile

northeaster

52 posts in 1396 days


#8 posted 05-02-2012 03:34 PM

Charlie, I know it’s unlikely but did Rigid tell you what they thought the cause is and what would need to be replaced?

As I understood it a few months ago, Grizzly didn’t have a specific fix for the G0715P: I wonder how this problem came to be solved and whether there is a retrofit of any sort that makes sense.

View Charlie's profile

Charlie

1095 posts in 1190 days


#9 posted 05-02-2012 03:52 PM

northeaster,
All they’d tell me on the phone was that it was a problem with the blade height adjustment geometry.

As a former millright, here’s my assesment…

I think the castings were machined “green”. Cast iron really needs to age before being machined. It can (and does) move a little as it ages. Just in the beginning. There’s a surface that’s machined flat (on the trunion half) and against which the arbor assembly travels when raising and lowering the blade (Which also has a machined contact point). If that was machined green and as it aged it moved just little, it would get exaggerated as you got farther from the fulcrum or pivot point. It would only take a couple thousandths to do this. If you crawl under the saw, I think you can see the contact point between the 2 pieces. Take the blade off and get yourself a good light. At the bottom of the travel there’s a gap between the pieces. As you raise the blade (or arbor ‘cause you’ve taken the blade off) that gap narrows to nothing. SOMETHING in that trunion assembly is not machined correctly.

My guess would be you’d have to replace the whole trunion/arbor assembly to correct it in one shot. Otherwise you’re guessing at exactly which piece is the culprit and you don’t know what this pressure has done to the other parts.

That’s a guess. You’d have to take the main table with trunions attached off of the saw to really get it in position to measure where it’s going wrong.

View northeaster's profile

northeaster

52 posts in 1396 days


#10 posted 05-02-2012 08:52 PM

Charlie, I think yours is the best (possible) explanation I’ve seen so far concerning a saw that has been the subject of a fair number of posts.

It would account for how much variation there is among individual saws, as well as for how Grizzly might reasonably claim the problem is solved (a cheap and easy solution that costs very little in production).

I appreciate that other machinists could say that there are a huge number of ways to get the same end, but it will be interesting to hear how this plays out.

Thanks!

View ROBZ71LM7's profile

ROBZ71LM7

11 posts in 1122 days


#11 posted 05-03-2012 01:04 AM

Got a call from Keith yesterday and finally managed to get a hold of him today. Keith said he’d seen the post here and asked what I intended to use the saw for-in my custom picture frames and basic furniture. He did say that there have been issues with this saw, but upon seeing how far out mine was that he wanted to take the saw back and refund my money. I didn’t even have to ask for a refund-not to mention I’m beyond the 30 day period. He didn’t push me to upgrade but recommended the 1023RL for my use. I went ahead and ordered a 1023RL today. :thumbsup: I plan to buy a jointer from them this fall as well.

The 715p is basically just a contractor saw with enclosed cabinet and not what Grizzly would recommend for our uses. I’ll be shipping mine back with the pallet and packaging from the 1023.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

6142 posts in 2279 days


#12 posted 05-03-2012 01:22 AM

Nice upgrade!

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View JasonDust's profile

JasonDust

5 posts in 31 days


#13 posted 04-25-2015 10:44 PM

Hi,
I bought one of these Grizzlys back in January (2015). It is my first table saw. I’m having this issue, too.

Obviously, a huge upgrade, which is what I was going for. And so far it’s been pretty good, despite…

Right after I bought it, I aligned it according the manual, which explains you need to do it with the blade up, then at 45 deg. Well, it was my first time with my first align-able table saw, and while I felt like i got it fairly well aligned, I suspect I missed a few details. Things like backing off just a bit after raising the blade all the way, making sure the height was locked before adjusting, etc.

Anyway, after a few months of light use, I started noticing that it wasn’t really aligned quite right… the back of the blade would take off just a hair more (from the left side of the cut) than the front.

At one point I measured, and noticed that the alignment changed with elevation! Not just the lateral position, but the alignment, too. Gah! I’ve been wracking my brain, trying to figure out how to correct it, and haven’t come up the answer. I’m suspecting that the pivot for the elevation adjustment must not be parallel with the arbor, but I don’t know if there’s any way to fix that.

Anyway, after spending some hours in the garage today trying to fix align it, I came in and found this thread. I’m both delighted (because it suggests I’m not just messing up the process) and disappointed to find this info (because it means there may be no easy fix for it.)

I guess I’ll be calling Grizzly Monday.

Have they been generally helpful with addressing the problems?

It’s kinda sad, because I do like the saw – I just can’t get it dialed in the last little bit. I think in my case, if I get it spot on at full height, when I drop it down to where the blade is only up about 1” or 1.5”, the alignment goes out by about 0.010” or so. Honestly, it may not be bad enough to be worth worrying about, but it makes aligning it seem like a waste of time.

What have those of you with this problem done?

Call grizzly and get it fixed?

Get it replaced?

Just return it?

Find a compromise adjustment? (I’m considering doing that right now, regardless of what I do long-term – just align in at the approx height range I usually use.)

Something else?

Thanks,
Jason

-- Grizzly G0715P - and a ShopSmith MkV

View JasonDust's profile

JasonDust

5 posts in 31 days


#14 posted 04-28-2015 02:57 AM

I spoke with tech support (Keith, in fact) at Grizzly today. I was told to wrap a ratcheting tie-down strap around the trunions, loosen up the trunion bolts, tighten up the strap (not too tight, just enough to cinch everything up – not trying to bend anything here), and re-tighten the bolts.

:/

Oh, and I mentioned how the blade racks about an extra 25 thou at the very top of the travel. I wasn’t told that was NORMAL, but there was a sort of sense that it was normal for this saw, or saws of this caliber. Oh, and I was also told this one isn’t a true hybrid. It’s really just a contractor saw dropped on a cabinet. Basically the same thing ROBZ71LM7 said/was told a few years ago.

I wish I’d done a bit more research. Don’t you wonder why they don’t print this stuff in the catalog?? I mean, of course you don’t, but still…

Well, I think I know what you’re thinking about that strap idea… But I decided to give it a go, because that has to be easier than packing it up, shipping it back, and reassembling something a few weeks from now, right?

It was a bit of a PITA to get that strap up in there, and in the end, I don’t think it did any good. It may have helped a bit, but definitely didn’t solve it. Oh, and forget about trying to do any needed shimming and so forth if you have to mess with the strap to keep tension on the trunions as while you’re doing it. Makes the valve adjustment on my oilhead seem trivial.

I had some time to think about it today, and I’m increasingly convinced that the real problem is incorrect geometry between the motor pivot shaft and the arbor. That could be as a consequence of a green casting as per Charlie above, or just a manufacturing error. When I crank the elevation up, and look through the blade slot, at the moment the blade kants over, the trunion does NOT show any corresponding movement. So, it must be either the front trunion moving, or the motor mount pivot. Since the front of the blade isn’t moving much when this happens, and the back does, and the motor mount pivot is near the front of the blade… I think that’s it. Too much play, and a possible misalignment as well (too much play could explain both problems)

Jason

Well, first off, it was a right

-- Grizzly G0715P - and a ShopSmith MkV

View BroncoBrian's profile

BroncoBrian

382 posts in 862 days


#15 posted 04-28-2015 08:16 PM

Are these problems limited to certain Grizzly products? Seems like too many people have good experiences with Grizzly CS. I guess there is a big positive in that statement, but also, a lot of people have to use the CS department.

Are the production issues limited to certain products in each line up or are Grizzly products more prone to have issues out of the box than others?

-- A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.

showing 1 through 15 of 30 replies

Have your say...

You must be signed in to reply.

DISCLAIMER: Any posts on LJ are posted by individuals acting in their own right and do not necessarily reflect the views of LJ. LJ will not be held liable for the actions of any user.

Latest Projects | Latest Blog Entries | Latest Forum Topics

HomeRefurbers.com