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Epifanes varnish problem wih light sanding.

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Forum topic by Ken90712 posted 850 days ago 4557 views 0 times favorited 12 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ken90712

14878 posts in 1816 days


850 days ago

A question for you Masters out there. While finishing the outdoor table I’m making, I get a whiet haze after lightly sanding. I’m using Epifanes clear varnish with extra Uv protection. I applied with a high quality brush and cut with epifanes thinner each coat as suggested. The finish looks real good but once I llightly sand to make glass smooth I get a light white haze. When I wipe it down with denatured acohol it goes away until it dries it then comes back. I’ve talked with Epifanes and the don’t seem to know why. I have let it cure double the time suggested, Its been the correct tempature as well and no real humidity as well. I’m thinking of spraying the last coat so it will come out smoother. The suggested getting 3M paper at 1500 & 3000 or try the trizact coumpond kit.

I got response form them stating this from the pics,

hello Kenneth, It appears that some moisture got on the table at one time during your process. Sunlight usually pulls any milkyness of the varnish, can you get it out in the sun for a couple of hours? Just don’t let it get too hot.. above 80? Patrick

If I had moisture present wouldnt it show up before lightly sanding? Any ideas?

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"


12 replies so far

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15684 posts in 2845 days


#1 posted 850 days ago

Ken, I think you might be making something out of nothing here.

It’s quite common for a clear finish to look hazy when you sand it lightly. The haze should disappear when you put the next coat on. If it only reappears after sanding, you don’t have a problem.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

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CharlieM1958

15684 posts in 2845 days


#2 posted 850 days ago

Let me add this after re-reading your post:

You can’t sand a finish to make it glass smooth. (Well, you can… but you’ll get the very problem you are seeing now.) If you want a more “glassy” finish, you’ll have to rub it out. There are a number of ways to do this, using, for example, pumice and rottenstone, or automotive polish. Google “rubbing out a finish” and you’ll find quite a bit of info.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Joseph Jossem's profile

Joseph Jossem

366 posts in 895 days


#3 posted 850 days ago

Yeah that looks like the sanding marks put another light coat

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

14878 posts in 1816 days


#4 posted 850 days ago

Thx, yea it goes away after re-appylig. Like most finishes, I’ll have to read more about rubbing it out for the final coat. No matter how hard I try with a good brush it has been impossible to get a perfect smooth finish for the final coat. So I need to lightly knock down the hairs so to speak. Maybe rubbing it oout on the final coat will give me the desired results. Thx for the quick response.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7676 posts in 2679 days


#5 posted 850 days ago

I hope you get it worked out… OK.

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

15684 posts in 2845 days


#6 posted 850 days ago

Let me say up front that I have no experience with the product you are using. But when I’m using polyurethane, and want a glass-smooth finish, this is what I often do for the final coat:

I use either a wipe-on poly, or thin regular poly 50-50 with mineral spirits, then apply it rather thickly with a foam brush. Because it is thin, any bubbles or unevenness will dissipate before it dries. Of course this is only good for horizontal surfaces because you’ll get runs if you do it on the vertical.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

14878 posts in 1816 days


#7 posted 850 days ago

Nice idea Charles thx. I watched Charles Neil Rubbing ( sanding ) out a finish and understand why this is happening and how to get rid of it as well. I was thinking I was on the right track but then 2nd guessed my self. That is one of the reasons I love this site. So many peole willing to help.

Not a day goe by we don’t learn something or try and improve our skills.

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View DonH's profile

DonH

483 posts in 1444 days


#8 posted 850 days ago

Hi Ken

I have used about a ton of this varnish on wooden boats. It does not like a hot surface. I usually used about 10 coats with a wet sanding between coats to 400 grit (it will turn white and you need to put on enough coats so that it is unifrormlly white so you know when it is truly level). Last coat I thinned with turpentine so that it laid flat with no brush strokes – I think the last coat or two (or three) could be wiped when thinned but I never tried it.

The one nice thing about varnish is if you are not happy, wet sand and add another coat(s) until you are happly. THe finish can only get better!!

-- DonH Orleans Ontario

View justoneofme's profile

justoneofme

616 posts in 1107 days


#9 posted 850 days ago

Hi Ken: First off … I have never used your product, so my advice may be of no use to you. However, I do use lacquers which are sprayed on.
Here on the ‘wet coast’ there’s always a humidity problem … I don’t know if you’re spraying (or brushing on your finish) inside or outside. In the past, I too have experienced ‘blushing’ (what may be your white haze), and it happens mostly in colder weather.
My spray room has a fan to suck out the fumes, and an open window to bring in fresh air at the same time. That makes my spray room extra cold and at times this hazing results. I use a product called No-Blush (Butyl Cellosolve) … not every time I’m finishing a project, just when I know it’s going to be too cold for a good spray.
It only takes about 6 drops of this stuff into the amount of lacquer my spray cup holds to banish all signs of blushing. It may be worthwhile to contact the supplier of Epifanes to see if No-Blush is compatible … especially if this is a finish you wish to continue using.
Good luck … sure hope you don’t blush often!

-- Elaine in Duncan

View Ken90712's profile

Ken90712

14878 posts in 1816 days


#10 posted 850 days ago

Thx, Don and Elaine!

Yesterday I bought 800 / 1000 / 1500 / 2000 griits and wet sanded like Charles Neil has suggested. Made by Micra. Once I went up to 2000 it looked good then I applied a light coat of was and it came out like glass. Very smooth and glossy. I watched his videos on rubbing out finishes. This is the 2nd time he has helped me. Think I might buy his video on finishing.

Thx

-- Ken, "Everyday above ground is a good day!"

View andyboy's profile

andyboy

490 posts in 1900 days


#11 posted 849 days ago

I’m with Charlie and the others, once you have applied the top coat, it does what it is designed to do. Dry with out the need to sand. (In a perfect environment) If you need to sand, it is because of your environment, brush, dry scalp etc. I nearly always sand a top coat but apply wax or buff out with automotive cutting compound. Then you can get an amazing shine if that is what you’re after. To be honest, my out door table is grey and has nothing on it. That finish was free. Ive seen some expensive finishes go the same way after only a year.
I always sand with 600 of finer too.

-- Andy Halewoodworker. You can't finish if you don't finish. So finish it, because finish is everything.

View Joe Lyddon's profile

Joe Lyddon

7676 posts in 2679 days


#12 posted 849 days ago

Ken

Thank you!

I’ve watched Charles Neil’s “Rubbing Out a Finish”... it is very good!

Glad it’s working out…

-- Have Fun! Joe Lyddon - Alta Loma, CA USA - Home: http://www.WoodworkStuff.net ... My Small Gallery: http://www.ncwoodworker.net/pp/showgallery.php?ppuser=1389&cat=500"

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