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Powermatic vs Jet Dust Collectors!!!

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Forum topic by Austin DenHerder posted 03-31-2012 03:57 AM 8910 views 1 time favorited 24 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Austin DenHerder

36 posts in 1011 days


03-31-2012 03:57 AM

Here is what I’m looking at and need some help one choosing which one is better to buy! PLEASE HELP! What one is better???

#1
Powermatic Vortex Cone Dust Collector, 1.75HP 1PH 115/230V, 2-Micron Canister Kit, Model PM1300TX-CK

#2
Jet Vortex Cone Dust Collector, 1.5HP 1PH 115/230V, 2-Micron Canister Kit, Model DC-1100VX-CK

There is not much diference in price as I can see at this point!

The powermatic seems tobe biult a bit better than the Jet and has more chip capacity than the Jet. here are there stats:

POWERMATIC :

Model Number: 1791079K
Overall Dimensions: 37” x 29” x 72”
Height: 30”
Width: 23”
Length: 45”
Net Weight: 154 lbs
Sound Rating: 75-90 dB
1-Hose Connection Diameter: 6”
2-Hoses Connection Diameter: 4”
Bag Diameter: 20”
Filter Bag/Canister Length: 26”
Collection Bag Capacity: 10 cubic foot
Collection Bag Length: 30”
Air Flow 6” 1,064 cu.ft/min
Static Pressure: 11.31 inch of water
Particle Size (Micron): 98% of 2
Micron particles: 86% of 1 micron particles
Velocity 6”: 5,374 foot per minute
Air Inlet: (1) at 6” or (2) at 4”
Impeller Diameter: 12”
Impeller Fins: 6
Impeller Material: Steel
Separator Tank Diameter: 20”
Separator Tank Height: 10”
Motor Power: 1-3/4 HP
Motor Phase: 1 Ph
Motor Voltage: 115/230V
Prewired Voltage: 115V
Motor Current: 15/7.5A

AND
JET:

Model Number: DC-1100VX-CK
Overall Dimensions: 37” x 22.5” x 18”
Height: 18”
Width: 22.5”
Length: 37”
Net Weight: 159 lbs
Gross Weight: 172 lbs
Sound Rating: 70-80 dB
1-Hose Connection Diameter: 6”
2-Hoses Connection Diameter: 4”
Bag Diameter: 20”
Filter Bag/Canister Length: 25”
Collection Bag Capacity: 5.3 cubic foot
Collection Bag Length: 29”
Air Flow 4”: 1,100 cu.ft/min
Static Pressure: 10-1/2 inch of water
Particle Size (Micron): 98% of 2 micron particles
Velocity 4”: 12,571 foot per minute
Air Inlet: (1) at 6” or (2) at 4”
Impeller Diameter: 11”
Impeller Material: Steel
Separator Tank Diameter: 20”
Separator Tank Height: 10”
Motor Power: 1-1/2 HP
Motor Phase: 1 Ph
Motor Voltage: 115/230V
Prewired Voltage: 115V
Motor Current: 11/5.5A

Thank you to all out there willing to help me make a decision on this… What is rated higher??

-- Austin


24 replies so far

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#1 posted 03-31-2012 04:05 AM

The larger impeller, solid exit chute, and higher static pressure would be enough to push me toward the PM.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Austin DenHerder's profile

Austin DenHerder

36 posts in 1011 days


#2 posted 03-31-2012 04:12 AM

It seems to have less CFM ? than the Jet? does this mater? The jet has 5.3 cu ft bag and the powermatic has 10cu ft bag if I read that right? which is allot better less changes!!!

-- Austin

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

2047 posts in 1246 days


#3 posted 03-31-2012 11:30 AM

Factory CFM numbers are less than useful, as mentioned go with the larger impeller (which leads to the higher SP). The PM also has tighter filtration….and 1 micron or better is normally what I would recommend.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#4 posted 03-31-2012 11:44 AM

The bags should be similar size….bag height is 29” vs 30” and both have 20” diameter separator rings. Specs aren’t always listed accurately…CFM numbers in particular are usually questionable depending on how and where they measure them.

In addition to the 1/4hp difference, the PM also draws more amps, which could indicate a more powerful motor (it could also indicate a less efficient motor, but that’s not likely the case in a PM vs Jet comparison). Bigger impeller + bigger motor should equate to more CFM if the basic designs are similar. The PM looks better to me on several specs, plus as I mentioned, the Jet has a corrugated exit chute which will create a good deal of resistance…the PM’s exit chute is smooth and made of metal vs plastic, which should also equate to higher CFM.

If the price is close, there’s little question that I’d pick the PM over the Jet. Also, PM and Jet are owned by the same company…PM is their premium line, while Jet is their value line….that doesn’t always make a difference, but it appears to me that the PM has the upper hand in this case. You could always ask Jet/PM about the spec differences if it concerns you.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View pmayer's profile

pmayer

609 posts in 1818 days


#5 posted 03-31-2012 12:03 PM

For the same money I would go with the PM here for the larger impeller. I suspect that everything else is pretty comparable, and there is some inconsistent info in the specs provided. The CFM ratings are odd that PM is provided on 6” ducting and Jet on 4”. The PM rating feels about right to me for this motor/impeller configuration, while the Jet # sounds theoretical. I used to have a Jet 1100 with cartridge filter (non Vortex) and with the filter as clean as I could get it my best 4” port readings (closest to the DC) were in the 330 CFM range, and on my 6” ports I was getting in the 600 – 700 range depending on SP. I don’t have any comparisons to the PM, but I did comparisons at each tool port when I upgraded to a Clear Vue cyclone and you can see the table with all of the results in this article: http://www.wwgoa.com/articles/product-reviews/stepping-up-to-better-dust-collection/

In the data comparison above the only thing that jumps out at me as being in favor of the Jet is the sound rating. I can tell you from my own experience that the Jet 1100 is a pretty quiet machine. Mine ran right in the range that they indicate, in the low 70s as I recall. But I sure wouldn’t make my decision based on that unless I was able to verify the sound rating on the PM, and even then, I probably wouldn’t because my shop is pretty heavily soundproofed and I generally wear ear protection anyway.

-- PaulMayer, http://www.vernswoodgoods.com

View jmos's profile

jmos

681 posts in 1122 days


#6 posted 03-31-2012 01:33 PM

If the prices are close, go with the PM.

However, before pulling the trigger, give some thought to exactly what you’re trying to do. I bought the PM about 1.5 years ago (pre-cone) and found it works well for chip collection, but I was ending up with a consistent layer of fine dust all over the shop. About a month ago I bought a better filter from Wynn and added a trashcan separator before the unit; it works OK, but my suction has taken a noticeable hit. So, instead of picking up the fine dust and blowing it back out my filter with the OEM set-up, my new filter will capture the dust it sucks up, but I don’t think I’m getting it all. Damned if you do… So, I’ve been doing research and am thinking about moving to a cyclone.

My point is, before dropping +$700 on a dust collector, make sure you don’t think you’ll want to upgrade in the near future.

Bill Pentz’s site has a lot of interesting information and food for thought.

If you can exhaust you air outside, or put the unit outside, then either unit will work. The real concern is the return air.

-- John

View Austin DenHerder's profile

Austin DenHerder

36 posts in 1011 days


#7 posted 03-31-2012 02:52 PM

Thank you guys! that really helps me allot! Will look into those things brought up…. Looks like I’m going to the PM….. cyclone? There is Laguna with an impressive set up but I don’t think they make a 1.75 motor set up as I don’t have enough power where i’m putting the unit. I guess I could have a new elec-panel put in with more amps….????

-- Austin

View jmos's profile

jmos

681 posts in 1122 days


#8 posted 03-31-2012 03:46 PM

Getting into the cyclone thing is a big jump. Gotta have 220v. Some dispute if you have to go 5hp (Bill Pentz claims is needed) or of 2.5 to 3HP will work (Penn State Ind, Oneida Air, Grizzly…) sell models in those HP ranges. Lots of questions. But, the PM DC is a big enough nut that it hurts to ditch it to buy a cyclone, which is where I am now. I’m also in a power pinch, I’ve got 200amp service, but the electrician that wired the house used a lot of circuits, which is nice, but the panel only had two open slots when I moved in, and they are now full. I’d also need a new sub-panel. Of course, if I have that then I can consider other 220v tools, where now I’m stuck with 120v.

This is a can of worms.

Again, I do recommend reading some on Bill Pentz’s website. Agree or disagree, it’s an interesting read.

-- John

View ducky911's profile

ducky911

232 posts in 1542 days


#9 posted 03-31-2012 04:12 PM

I was worried about the cost of running 220 in my shop….i was so surprized at how easy it was….the electrical parts are all plug and play and i was able to do it myself.

I have a 2hp grizzley 1700 cfm and wish it would suck a bit more. I have had no trouble with the grizzley and it is 1 micron. Probably cheaper then your two and about the same size. Not sure about dbs.

My bet is you will be wanting to upgrade either of these.

Also noise level is a big deal. I moved mine out of the shop. I could not think when it was running.

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2378 posts in 1636 days


#10 posted 03-31-2012 04:24 PM

I’ll second what John said. I started off with a 1.5HP DC made by General International; had similar specs to the Jet and PM. It worked ok with short duct runs, but I still came in after a day of ww coughing up dust. I eventually upgraded to a large cyclone unit and have a virtually dust free shop. For the price of the PM DC, you could spend a bit more and get a really nice Penn State Ind. cyclone. Otherwise, for just a canister DC, I’d save your money and go with something like a Harbour Freight 2HP canister DC, which will perform just as well as the Jet or PM, but at a fraction of the price.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View Dusty56's profile

Dusty56

11688 posts in 2441 days


#11 posted 03-31-2012 06:57 PM

I’d like to know how one extra inch of dust bag length equals five more cubic feet of collection capacity ??
You can’t believe everything you read !! Just look at the “overall dimensions”.
Someone here must know the formula to convert 20”x30” versus the 20”x29”to cubic feet.
They appear to have the same filter ratings.
How much of that extra .25 HP is used just to spin the larger impeller? Hmmmm.
I am quite pleased with my JET DC w/ canister filter : )

-- I'm absolutely positive that I couldn't be more uncertain!

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#12 posted 03-31-2012 07:26 PM

”Otherwise, for just a canister DC, I’d save your money and go with something like a Harbour Freight 2HP canister DC, which will perform just as well as the Jet or PM, but at a fraction of the price.”

Rob – The HF DC is a good value in the $150-$175 range, but how do you get it’s 10-3/4” impeller to perform “just as well as” the 12” impeller on the PM? I think that’s a little optimistic…

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2378 posts in 1636 days


#13 posted 03-31-2012 08:10 PM

knotscott; I agree that the larger the impeller the better the performance of the DC at higher static pressure. The majority of users of “canister” DC’s (regardless of impeller size) configure the ducting in ways that far exceeds the limited capacity of their impeller. For adequate fine dust capture the airflow must be in at least the 500-600 CFM range, ideally 800 CFM or higher. Most of the ducting setups that I see on LJ’s eg. 4” ducting or >10ft of 6” duct increases the static pressure of the system to a point where it really doesn’t matter whether the impeller is 10 3/4” or 12” the DC is unable to provide the CFM needed.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5608 posts in 2128 days


#14 posted 03-31-2012 09:52 PM

Thanks for the explanation Rob.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View joesf's profile

joesf

25 posts in 641 days


#15 posted 03-04-2014 10:55 PM

I’ve been looking into dust collectors. Ther is an old saying that a little bit of knowledge can sometimes be dangerous and Ill tell you things definitely do not make sense. I’ve read Bill Pentzs web page. I know he does not think a lot of these little units but admits they do help so I thought Id maybe consider getting one. Id just like to know how much they really do help. For the purpose of this post I am not intersted in grizzly, laguna, Harbor Freight or other models. I am focusing on these two brands and three models because they are made basically by the same company and should have comparable numbers.

Jet 1200 vortex cone cfm @ 4” 1200 Static pressure 11.5 model710702K
Powermatic 1300TX-CK vortex cfm at 6” 1068 SP 11.31 model 1790107K
Jet 1100vx-ck vortex cone cfm 4” 1100 SP 10.5 model 708659K

Jet 1200 2 hp 8 amps 230 volts =
Powermatic 1300 1.75 HP 15, 7.5 amps 115/230 volts
Jet 1100 1.5 HP 11,5.5 amps 155/230 volts

Using published volts and amps for the three moters and assuming similar power factor and efficiency the Powermatic 1300 is closer to the Jet 1200 2hp and has a 12 inch impeller like the 1200. The Jet 1100 has an 11 inch impeller.

So why is the cfm of the little jet 1100 with 1100 cfm at 4 inches so much more than the Powermatic? 1068 cfm at 6 ” means if you drop down to four inches you are getting well south of 700 cfm at the inlet to the blower. Add 10 feet of four inch hose and you aren’t going to have enough cfm to be capturing real fine dust according to published literature. I called Powermatic/Jet (JPW) and no one knows. The machines are so similar with the vortex cone, the Powermatic has the steel chute, the motor is close to what thew Jet 2HP is, how can it be such a comparatively poorer performer? Or are the Jets just overrated?

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