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Cyclone Dust Collectors - Filter ratings and real life performance.

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Forum topic by Ivan posted 03-29-2012 06:24 PM 3150 views 0 times favorited 9 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Ivan

185 posts in 2841 days


03-29-2012 06:24 PM

Topic tags/keywords: question

All, with the imminent arrival of our little girl I am in serious dust collection mode. I was looking at several suppliers of Cyclones and was hoping to get some feedback on manufacturers and more importantly Filter performance.

Oneida has a HEPA filter that I find very attractive but I’m concerned that this doesn’t have the internal baffles and blowing compressed air at the filter to knock out any caked dust will shorten the life of the filter.

Laguna has the mobile units with filters 0.2-2 microns, but this is not a HEPA or MERV rated filter.

Thoughts??

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."


9 replies so far

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BlankMan

1488 posts in 2817 days


#1 posted 03-29-2012 07:11 PM

This thread came up recently regarding cleaning the filters with compressed air. I haven’t done it yet myself but planned to when I need to and my take away was that it was safe to do. There were references to Oneida filters.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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killerb

150 posts in 1862 days


#2 posted 03-30-2012 02:31 PM

I have an oneida and it is great. Good service and I am very happy.

-- Bob www.bobkloes.com

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dbhost

5605 posts in 2696 days


#3 posted 03-30-2012 02:39 PM

No cyclone here, but I do have a DC with a cartridge filter and no beater baffle thingy… I simply shop vac my filter periodically to keep it clean enough. I don’t want to totally eliminate the cake as that is part of what makes the filter work in the first place. I use a Thien type separator and am happy with the separation I get. I believe I am on year #3 with this rig, and I have only vacuumed out the filter once, and that was because I did something stupid, and caused my separator to stop separating (do NOT suck up those grocery store bags into your DC!)

I would go with the better rated filter, and clean it as need be, but don’t obsess over it. You need some of that cake to get down to the HEPA rating in the first place!

-- My workshop blog can be found at http://daves-workshop.blogspot.com

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Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#4 posted 03-30-2012 03:40 PM

I have an Oneida and it’s a very poor design for separating dust (lack of air ramp, improper neutral vane, no squared sloped inlet) hence the frequent filter cleanings. If you have a good design (Clearview) the filters will need little cleaning. That said, as often as I have to clean mine, they are still undamaged after 4 years.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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BlankMan

1488 posts in 2817 days


#5 posted 03-30-2012 05:04 PM

Here we go again Oneida and it’s a very poor design.

I upgraded my Oneida cyclone 2-1/2 years ago to the external filter and have yet to have to clean it and it is used alot.

I have a Static Pressure Gauge on the inlet and a Pressure Gauge on the exhaust and I monitor them when it is in use and I know the readings both should have for each machine because I recorded them when the system was upgraded. If the reading on the inlet gauge starts to drop off or the reading on the exhaust gauge starts to rise that is an indication the the filter is clogging. It hasn’t happened yet.

Why? Because the separation is very good and the sawdust does not get into the filter on mine. Every time I empty the drum, which is quite often, I check the canister on the bottom of the filter and there is only a small amount of dust in it each time. If the separation wasn’t good I would expect it to fill up. I guess YMMV.

air ramp, neutral vane, squared sloped inlet I question the validity and thus the effectiveness of these. If they are so great I would expect all the cyclone manufacturers would by now be copying them. None have. There’s been plenty of time to do that, but none have.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they’re not because I don’t know but it sure seems odd that no one else uses them all. Cyclones have been around a long time, near as I can tell over 100 years and all that time all the engineering and mathematics that has gone into their design this was first implemented now? Has me wondering… I’d like to see some independent verification of their value.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View Fred Hargis's profile

Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#6 posted 03-30-2012 08:04 PM

Well, you either believe the Pentz data, or you don’t. I do. My own unit performs according to Oneida’s specs…99% separation (yes I did measure it, I get 98.4%). To get the other 1% you have to more or less double the cost of the cyclone with the mentioned additions plus the correct body/cone diameters and lengths. BTW, if you have dust getting to your filter….it’s in the filter, not the bottom of that little can. But I’m not trying to convince you otherwise, change your convictions or opinions; I’m only offering mine based on my experience which includes building my own first cyclone. One other thing, I also have a pressure gauge (0-4” Magnehelic) on mine to indicate when I need to get the dust out of the filter. I intend (someday) to get a pitot tube and measure air flow but haven’t done so yet. One thing my Oneida does do is move a lot of air.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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BlankMan

1488 posts in 2817 days


#7 posted 03-30-2012 09:13 PM

Fred, boy and I thought I was demanding. LOL

99% even 98.4% sounds pretty good to me. Is that by volume or weight? And of course I know if it’s in the canister it’s in the filter. I don’t expect everything to be separated out. But, maybe next time I empty my drum I’ll blow out the filter and compare the contents of the drum to the contents of the canister. Is that how you came up with 98.4%?

What does Clear Vue say for the 1800? I couldn’t find it anywhere.

So by poor design you mean it could be better?

I’ll be more inclined to believe that those design features are relevant when some independent testing confirms it or all the other manufacturers jump on the bandwagon. With the exception of the neutral vane, but you mentioned improper neutral vane, what’s improper about it?

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

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Fred Hargis

3940 posts in 1957 days


#8 posted 03-30-2012 09:49 PM

What I measured was by volume…only way I had to do it. That was at Oneida’s request when they were trying to help me work through my complaint (which they caught wind of on a forum where I described it. I did it exactly as you described, only I made sure I started with a completely clean filter/drum and they filled the drum. Then after the drum (55 gallon)was filled, I calculated the volume in it, and the volume of what I could get out of the filter: 98.4% in the drum. I want to say the Pentz design gets 99.9%, but I sure don’t remember where I got that number. The neutral vane need to extend into the body past the midpoint of the vertical tube, on the Oneida it barley reaches that tube, and tapers off sharply at the end. The only other company I’ve seen with the enhancements are some of the Grizzly models, they seemed to have simply infringed the Pentz design. Yes, by poor design, I mean it could be better. If you use a drum sander a lot, that would (should generate the results I have on the separation. When I was working with Oneida on this, they asked for dust samples and what grit I ran on the DS; apparently the grit affects particle size, hence separation.

-- Our village hasn't lost it's idiot, he was elected to congress.

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Ivan

185 posts in 2841 days


#9 posted 04-04-2012 03:08 PM

Ladies, ladies, please, not in front of the children…

I understand that in the real world perhaps things aren’t always what they should be, but a HEPA filter is by far more attractive than a lower (or non) rated filter.

At the end of the day I think the Oneida is what I’ll go with in terms of price, selection, filter and made in the USA. Maybe I’ll take a road trip and pick it up from the factory…

Thanks for the feedback.

-- "Do it right the first time, you'll just kick yourself later..."

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