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Sawstop (i know , i know) not again!

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Forum topic by cblak posted 852 days ago 1639 views 0 times favorited 50 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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cblak

26 posts in 861 days


852 days ago

Ok, I have come to realize that some people have VERY strong opinions about this topic. I have also realized that there seems to be a bit of miscommunication between the two sides. If I have my way i will never buy anything this company has to offer. It is quite a shame, because the idea of not cutting off my hand sounds quite appealing. I think most, if not all of us, agree that this is a great invention. The problem is that one side thinks the government should control everything in our lives and the other wants the freedom of cutting off his own fingers if he so chooses. Its hard not to bring politics into this because thats what this argument is all about! Am i right or am i looking at this all wrong? I think its the way Sawstop has gone about it, that has made most of us (at least on this side of the fence)upset. The man who invented it, Mr. Gass, (if i’m not mistaking) is a patent attorney, so he secured all the patents. He then presented this new technology to all the major saw manufactures and demands an outrageous percentage of their profits for permission to use it. When EVERY manufacturer turned him down he decided to start his own company and essentially do his best to make it law that everyone of US has to buy from him. No other company offers this technology because Mr. Gass threatens to sue everyone that comes up with a similar technology. Ok, I can appreciate a man trying to protect his own patents and even make a few bucks off a great idea. What I don’t appreciate is this man essentially coming into MY shop and telling me that i’m not capable of making my own decisions and that i could be fined if i don’t agree with HIS safety requirements!
I have been a professional cabinetmaker for 8 years and have seen my fair share of accidents. Every accident I have witnessed on a table saw was due to blatant misuse or a “kick back” of some sort. So, those of you who advocate for this man and for his reasoning, go out and buy your Sawstop. In a few years when some other guy comes up with an anti-kickback saw , don’t complain when you HAVE to buy another saw.
Our interests in woodworking is what brought us all together. Don’t let something like this divide us. If you want a particular tool, get it. If you don’t, don’t! Lets get out there and build something!

-- Chadwick, Northern Illinois


50 replies so far

View RandyM68's profile

RandyM68

693 posts in 917 days


#1 posted 852 days ago

A lot of people with swallow an endless amount of crap, if it is supposed to protect them. They tell themselves that it is okay. If we save one single life, it is worth it. No it’s not.The one thing on earth that is over-abundant, is people. Six billion is more than enough. We try to make sure that the stupidest among us survive to reproduce. Every tall building with roof access, has to have an unclimbable fence to keep idiots from falling off. Smart people stay back away from the edge, they don’t even need a warning. A waist high hand rail is plenty, to make sure no one accidently steps off the edge. However, we have to erect a 12 foot fence with barbed wire, and morons still fall off. Personally, I would put up a diving board and stage a competition. Pay your entry fee and take your turn. The best, most stylish dive wins the pot, land in the dumpster for bonus points. Just name your next of kin so I can make out the check. We could put it on Fox and have viewers call in and vote. We won’t even have auditions, everyone can play. The more people that play, the bigger the pot gets, enticing more idiots to buy a ticket. Just like the lottery. Steve Gass took a differenent approach. He convinced you that you are all stupid, and you need to but a “fence” from him, to keep you safe from yourself. His way, everyone feels safe, we have more idiots than ever before, and he gets rich. My way, we have a great new TV show, a steadily diminishing surplus of morons, and I get rich. In case you think I’m joking, well, not so much. Mail me 20 bucks right now, and I’ll put you at the head of the line.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

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DocSavage45

4741 posts in 1441 days


#2 posted 852 days ago

The people who really find saw stops valuable are people who have seen the other side. I just cannot afford one? Economics is the world’s current dividing line?

One trip to the hospital? The pain of the injury and the bills? The saw stop would probably be considered worth the cost, after this kind of experience.

At present I just “HAVE TO” be deliberate around sharp, powerful tools.

-- Cau Haus Designs, Thomas J. Tieffenbacher

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doncutlip

2832 posts in 2155 days


#3 posted 852 days ago

Yes there are idiots out there, and history has shown that every time you make something idiot proof, they improve the idiot. As to the question at hand, while in general I favor personal freedom over regulation, is this a case a bit like seat belts in cars?

-- Don, Royersford, PA

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a1Jim

111999 posts in 2176 days


#4 posted 852 days ago

I guess some folks need to keep addressing this subject over and over but IMO people who are for it and can afford A SS will buy one and those people who think their being forced into something and that the extra safety is not necessary won’t. end of story

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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Jorge G.

1524 posts in 1074 days


#5 posted 852 days ago

+1 Jim….

-- To surrender a dream leaves life as it is — and not as it could be.

View RandyM68's profile

RandyM68

693 posts in 917 days


#6 posted 852 days ago

It is exactly like seat belts. The only reason I wear one is because I have to talk to cops when I don’t. Cars are safer if you are wearing a seatbelt in a crash. I totally agree. Saw stops are much safer when you stick your finger in it. I also agree with that. The difference is my table saw will never come come out of nowhere and crash into my finger. That’s all on me. I don’t need the government to protect me from myself. If I am unable to do that I should die before I have more kids. They’ll probably be stupid too.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

View BlankMan's profile

BlankMan

1487 posts in 1952 days


#7 posted 852 days ago

I usually stay out of this fight.

I always wear my seat belt, always did before and don’t need no law. My choice and choose to do it.

Same thing with SS, should be my choice. I also don’t like the cost it adds to table saws. Could put them out of reach to some. That is wrong.

Government want’s to mandate it then they should subsidize the cost, net zero increase to consumers. But yeah I know we’d be paying anyway.

I do have a concern with saws that have it and people that use them, could lead to or amplify complacency. Not good.

-- -Curt, Milwaukee, WI

View Fuzzy's profile

Fuzzy

289 posts in 2587 days


#8 posted 852 days ago

The only part of the original post I have concern with is the validity of the events at that meeting with the industry giants. Yes, he did present them with the opportunity to license his device … I’m not sure what the royalty request was, so I can’t opine as to whether it was fair or not … the “industry” unanimously shut him out, standing in solidarity against his device. Then, and only then did he design a great saw around the device and bring it to market.

Now … if he offered it to the industry and they rejected it on merit … that’s one thing … BUT … it appears they rejected it based on the fact that it might cost them a few $$$$ to implement it … and, for THAT they should be ashamed. They thought they could ignore him and he would just go away … little did they know just who/what they were dealing with, and now, it’s coming back to bite them. I think the recent lawsuit was a joke … BUT … even if the operator was an idiot (he is) the device would have reduced or eliminated his injury, and Makita would be bragging about how they adopted this wonderful technology, saving this man’s career and his ability to earn a living. Mr. Gass didn’t file this lawsuit … he only testified that he made the technology available and demonstrated it to Makita, and that they rejected it. The jury decided that since Makita was aware that the technology existed that they should have implemented it or developed something similar on their own.

Now, there is little doubt that greed is involved in this whole debate … but just who is the greedy party ??? That, you will have to decide on your own.

-- - dabbling in sarcasm is foolish … if you’re not proficient at it, you end up looking stupid … ... ...

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

560 posts in 908 days


#9 posted 852 days ago

The way I figure it saw stop has saved more hot dogs than fingers.

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View NBeener's profile

NBeener

4806 posts in 1773 days


#10 posted 852 days ago

”The problem is that one side thinks the government should control everything in our lives ”

That’s peculiar.

I know lots of people on all sides of the political spectrum, but not a SINGLE ONE who believes that.

It’s hard to preach peace, and then lob grenades, isn’t it ?

-- -- Neil

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3834 posts in 927 days


#11 posted 852 days ago

There’s a fatal flaw in the plan to make a mint by getting the gub’ment to require SS….

The gub’ment moves at the speed of a snail and patents expire in 7 years.

SS has been around for quite a while now, and it will be available for a modest upcharge in just a few more years.

It’s quite interesting to read up on the history of patent law. If I understand correctly, many of the founding fathers were dead set against it, and the power to issue patents was ascribed to the Federal gub’ment as part of a compromise.

The system has become broken in a bad way and the patent trolls and lawyers are a huge impediment to many advances in technology.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View AlaskaGuy's profile

AlaskaGuy

560 posts in 908 days


#12 posted 852 days ago

ssnvet:

From my internet searches a patent is good for 20 years, not 7.

http://www.business-analysis-made-easy.com/How-Long-Is-A-Patent-Good-For.html

-- Alaskan's for Global warming!

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3834 posts in 927 days


#13 posted 852 days ago

I got that number from a program that talked about patented drugs… perhaps that is different, or perhaps they were talking about extensions….

If it’s twenty years, I guess we’ll have to wait a little longer then….. :^)

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

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nailbanger2

952 posts in 1742 days


#14 posted 852 days ago

The issue here is not Gass, nor Osorio, but our courts and gov’t. Please read this for details on the case, and notice two things: Osorio had never operated a tablesaw, and he removed two safety features, one of which I don’t think any of us would ever operate without.

http://www.jacksonkelly.com/jk/pdf/law360%20products%20liability%20nov.%202011%20guest%20column,%20floyd%20and%20hart.pdf

-- Wish I were Norm's Nephew

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irish620

27 posts in 907 days


#15 posted 852 days ago

I thought what made America great was our ability to drive innovation and competition ? Let someone else come up with a new or alternative away to stop a spinning blade. Patents protect intellectual property, but it’s really only those who have the money to protect that patent who prevail. Laws are made for the common people , not the elected officials or lawyers who create and pass them.

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