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I wanted to do a Tool Gloat - THE REAL STORY

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Forum topic by RandyM68 posted 03-17-2012 02:04 PM 4234 views 0 times favorited 29 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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RandyM68

693 posts in 1782 days


03-17-2012 02:04 PM

Topic tags/keywords: humor question drill press tablesaw refurbishing

Hi, guys, I’m new around here, most of you probably don’t even know me, but I’ve been watching for a while.
I like how you guys are like family around here. If someone really needs help with a problem, you are all quick
to come to the rescue with helpful advice that the rest of us learn from too. Most of you are very polite even when someone is trying to do something stupid and they only want you to validate their idiotic idea. You gently try to nudge them in the right direction. If someone posts a project that looks like it was done by a third grader, you guys don’t laugh, You pat them on the head and say “good job.”
What really reminds me of home is how, when somebody does something so good that it makes us
all jealous. Those are the ones you guys make fun of. I don’t have the woodworking prowess to rub that in your face, I’m just a newbie. Same goes for the ability to answer any question with sage, awe-inspiring wisdom, I don’t have that either, I’m just a dumb redneck.
I found out quickly, that I’m just out of my league when arguing politics with some of the higher educated members. The only thing I really had left, was a tool gloat. I needed some anyway, so why not find
a good deal and make fun of everybody that way. Some of you guys find some really good deals.
Then everyone tells you that you suck, and that they hate you. It’s all good fun, especially when they act like they got screwed and then surprise everyone With how little they really stole it for. I thought I’d found just such an opportunity. Lucky me? Yeah, right!!
I guess I should have done more research before I purchased them. I wanted a drill press I could put in my small shop. I found what I thought would be a good one. I’ve heard of guys paying six or eight hundred for a drill press. I was able to get this guy down under three. So far, I’m doing pretty good. Then he says he has a table saw, too. Oh, cool!
It was disassembled, into several piles so I couldn’t try it out. I found a good brand name, saw a rip fence and miter gauge, no blade but I had an extra Avanti at home, no big deal. I asked how much for both. I hate to admit how much I really paid, just suffice it to say. after drooling over those saws at Woodcraft, it sounded like a great deal. With a drill press to boot, What a bargain.
I’d just got that free tax money, so I ran to the bank, before I missed this one. I made it back
just in time, somebody else was looking at my tools. We loaded it up in the truck and flew home. This was gonna be funny.
I had a name brand table saw, with a better rip fence than my old Crapsman. It was disassembled and had some rust, so maybe I could post it as a tool build or restoration project. Show off my skills with the WD-40 and a wire brush, maybe do some painting, too. Brag about my restoration skills. I was excited.
You know how that feels, right? Then, I started looking for the directions. What? No directions?
How am I supposed to build a table saw without plans? I went back, but they were moving
stuff and couldn’t find them. Oh well, I’ll find some on the internet.
I finally found someone who would mail me a hard copy, so I didn’t have to run back and forth to the computer, to see what came next. While I was waiting for the mail, Istarted doing my research. Oh, crap!!
I thought Deltas were good tools. Everyone around here seems to think they’re just Chinese junk,
and they don’t seem to like the Delta fences either. At least I got a drill press, let’s see how good it is.
Oh, Hell! It’s made in Taiwan by some company I never even heard of. I bought one to fit the space, but it’s a bench top.
Now I found out that they are not worth it either. Not as stable as a floor model,smaller table, smaller chuck with less stroke, light weight construction. Yep, mine has all these flaws too.
The real problems started when the plans arrived.
It only took a day or two to get the stand assembled. Then I grabbed the saw and threw it up on the stand. It felt too light, so I flipped it over.
No blade and no MOTOR, either. No wonder it was so cheap. How do you find a motor for a discontinued Chinese saw?
I thought about trying to find a machine shop to make a bracket, so I can hang one of those HF motors on it. But they don’t have onewith the right RPM’s anyway.
I have a busted lawnmower, do you think they can make an abapter kit to mount a 5 horse Briggs&Stratton, that way I can use the throttle. Or should I just throw it away?
I fully expect you guys to make fun of my dumb ass, my wife sure has, but I can take it.
After all, if you can’t make fun of yourself, how can you make fun of everybody else.?
Go ahead, maybe some of you have some good ideas. too. All comments are welcome, I won’t get my feelings hurt.
I’ll be away from the computer, so I can’t reply for a while.
I’ll be able to see your comments
on my phone, so you won’t go unheard.
Maybe you can give me some ideas. At least you should get some laughs. Thanks.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.


29 replies so far

View jmos's profile

jmos

737 posts in 1834 days


#1 posted 03-17-2012 02:29 PM

Wow Randy, step back from the coffee!

I no expert, but most tablesaws these days are made overseas. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s junk. I don’t think there is a saw under $3000 (new) that someone doesn’t have a beef with, but most of us have less expensive saws and make due with the various limitations.

As for the motor, start searching online. Delta is a popular brand, and replacement parts are available. Depending on the age of the saw you can probably order an exact replacement from Delta directly (probably the most expensive option, but easiest installation.) If you’ve got the manual, figure out exactly what parts your missing and price them out. You can also look at a third party replacement motor, maybe even up the HP of the saw while you’re at it.

It might be worth contacting the seller to see if they still have the old motor; even if it’s dead, you might be able to salvage the mounting hardware.

Work out a repair plan, determine your cost, and decide if it’s worth pumping X more dollars into the saw, or if it’s just an expensive lesson in buying used tools.

For the drill press, a bench mounted press isn’t a bad thing, it just depends on your needs. I’ve got a Delta bench model that does most of my needs. I just finished a workbench build where a floor model would have been very useful. If I find the need arises enough I’ll have to consider buying a floor model, but the bench is getting me along for now. As a beginner too, you might be able to get years worth of use out of your new press before deciding to upgrade.

Good luck and remember to breath.

-- John

View jeepturner's profile

jeepturner

939 posts in 2257 days


#2 posted 03-17-2012 02:51 PM

+1 on what jmos posted, but +100 about remember to breath.

I have a Delta TS and a Delta bench top drill press. I don’t know where they were made, I assumed when I bought the Unisaw it was made some in the US and some other places. The drill press has served me well for years, just hobby use. I have looked at the floor models, but I don’t have the room. The other thing I like about the bench top model is that I can pick it up and move it when I need to.

Before the Unisaw I owned a Delta contractors table saw. It served me well for a long time, and the only knock I had against it was the smaller HP motor, and the miter slots did not have the “T” slot. I really wanted the “T” slot so that I could use them to tighten jigs to the table.

Buyers remorse maybe what your dealing with, but as John stated, you need to step away, breath, evaluate and move forward.

I hope it all works out and those tools serve you well for many years to come.

-- Mel,

View RockyTopScott's profile

RockyTopScott

1184 posts in 2943 days


#3 posted 03-17-2012 02:53 PM

Randy, aren’t you Mike’s friend?

-- “When you want to help people, you tell them the truth. When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.” ― Thomas Sowell

View joebloe's profile

joebloe

157 posts in 1758 days


#4 posted 03-17-2012 03:08 PM

Randy,been there, done that.A long time ago I came across a”deal”that I though was to good to pass on.I stopped at a local pawn shop,they had taken them on pawn and the time was up.he offered them to me at what I thought was a cheap price,$350.00,for a table top drill press,a table saw ,a 6’’ jointer planer,and a stand.they where stuffed in the back of the storage area of the shop.took them home,the drill press ,it was broke where you tighten to hold the table still ,pot metal and couldn’t be welded.The table saw was a 8’’ blade saw ,it started,and ran for about 5 min,and smoke started comming from the motor, it was shot.the only good thing was the 6’’ jointer/planer,which I still have and the stand,that now has my DW734 planner on it. So Randy,don’t feel lonely,things like this happens to more of us than will ever admit it.

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1795 days


#5 posted 03-17-2012 03:18 PM

Hi Randy,
For several years Delta had their castings made in Brazil. As long as the QC is up to snuff there shouldn’t be an issue. Maybe it’s now cast in Taiwan. Now on to the table saw. Is this one of the direct drive models? Or is it belt driven? If it’s the later and the motor mount is there then you need to get a 2HP 3450 rpm TEFC motor for it. If it’s direct drive, then “Houston”, you have a problem. Maybe not. The saw motors may still be available through Delta parts. Is this a Model #36-390C ? Go here and see what you can find.
Tool parts direct.

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View David Grimes's profile

David Grimes

2078 posts in 2104 days


#6 posted 03-17-2012 03:59 PM

Well, you asked for it… I see that humor is one of your tag lines.

I see you have a machinist and CNC background. It’s hard to fathom how you could be duped so easily when those stated skills usually also mean intelligence and attention to detail are your MO.

You had to wait on PLANS ? A machinist should not require plans to assemble a drill press (just like a real woodworker should not require store bought plans to build a shelf).

And I never dreamed that I would read “wire brush”, “WD40” and “skills” in the same sentence. Thank you for that.

-- If you're going to stir the pot, think BIG spoon or SMALL boat paddle. David Grimes, Georgia

View CharlieM1958's profile

CharlieM1958

16242 posts in 3683 days


#7 posted 03-17-2012 04:27 PM

Switch to decaf, Randy. You’ll be okay. :-)

Like others have said, I have a benchtop Delta drill press, and it is one of the most useful tools in the shop. Does it do everything a floor model can do? No, but it still does a lot!

Now as for the saw, post some photos of what you’ve got, and I’ll bet you get some great advice.

-- Charlie M. "Woodworking - patience = firewood"

View jtbinvalrico's profile

jtbinvalrico

36 posts in 1835 days


#8 posted 03-18-2012 04:31 AM

Randy, my recommendation is that you hunt down an old motor and get these tools working. You’ll learn a ton about what makes a machine tick, why one feature is preferred over another….and you’ll gain a real appreciation for something better, and moreover, why it’s better. You can do magic with a wire wheel and WD40; clean it up, use it and learn, then sell it or give it away. I’ve learned to look at my “stupid tax” moments as learning experiences. Press ahead, brother, you’ll be fine.

View NormG's profile

NormG

5506 posts in 2468 days


#9 posted 03-18-2012 04:41 AM

It’s just a learning experience. You never now until you try

-- Norman - I never never make a mistake, I just change the design.

View Rick's profile

Rick

8287 posts in 2497 days


#10 posted 03-18-2012 07:04 AM

What David Grimes said.

-- Hope Everyone Is Doing Well! .... Best Regards: Rick

View RandyM68's profile

RandyM68

693 posts in 1782 days


#11 posted 03-18-2012 04:35 PM

Sorry, guys, I’ll have to respond later, I’m too busy woodworking and polishing my Harley. I’ll have to finish the tutorial later. It’s going great. They’re making a bracket for the Briggs as we speak. Luckily, I found a machine shop that would open up on Sunday. I had to borrow a little more money, but I think it’s worth it. Maybe I’ll post some videos?

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 1795 days


#12 posted 03-18-2012 06:56 PM

ACH ZO! Ist ein “spoofengoofer”. Myself I’d get a mount for an old BSA 441 Victor engine/transmission. Then you could rig a twist grip throttle, foot clutch, and “suicide shift” for changing blade speed. GOBS of torque with that “thumper”. You’ll play hell kickin’ that SOB over. BTW, (insert Bronx Cheer).

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View derosa's profile

derosa

1568 posts in 2300 days


#13 posted 03-18-2012 07:13 PM

It might not be much to gloat over but it is a decent learning experience as long as you take it as such. I wouldn’t worry too much about the Delta, they are a decent overall company, some people have trouble with them but that is what half my shop is made of and they work fine for me. Taiwanese also doesn’t matter too much, beats China and even China can be decent. Just tune em up, get em running and enjoy.

-- --Rev. Russ in NY-- A posse ad esse

View RandyM68's profile

RandyM68

693 posts in 1782 days


#14 posted 03-19-2012 01:57 PM

I got the bracket from the machine shop yestererday evening, only had to pay six hours shop time. Well worth it, I’d say. It only took four hours last night, and it mounted right up. I got ready to do some more woodworking this morning. I was too tired to try it out last night. The wife probably would have been mad if I fired this beast up in the middle of the night. I yanked on the rope for a good 45 minutes, and then put some gas in it. Damn, it won’t start. I not worried though, my junior high science teacher taught a small engine repair class. He was a smart feller. I should have no problem. Everybody forgets to put gas in some time. It’s probably that thingy that makes the spark. Not the plug, any idiot would know that, what’s the other thing? Back to the internet.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

View RandyM68's profile

RandyM68

693 posts in 1782 days


#15 posted 03-21-2012 03:36 PM

Thanks to all you guys that tried to help me.You were very kind and patient with me. I would have made fun of an idiot like that. In fact, I was making making fun of just such a moron.
He seems to have left the party anyway, so I’ll finish the story.
It started in my favorite thrift store, just threeblocks from my house. I wasn’t even looking for tools, I buy lots of used furniture there to use for building materials.
I did buy a Delta saw with no motor, and a bench top drill press. I saw the drill press first. It is actually a Continental International, made in Taiwan in 1982. It’s an industrial model 5 speed with over three inches of stroke on the quill, and a 5/8” Jacobs chuck. Just for kicks I put it on the scale. 130 pounds.
They told me $150 and I jumped on it. I haven’t seen a better one for less than four hundred.

I was tickled pink. Then he says “I’ve got a table saw for sale too.” I looked at it from fifty feet away,
the first thing I saw was the fence. I asked how much for both. He asks the boss, and comes back. $200. No way.

I was good to go right there. Hell yeah I’ll take it. Then I took a closer look.

I knew, without really looking, that no one gives a saw like this away, unless it needs a lot of work. I didn’t care,
just the fence is worth $200. I fully intended to put another motor on it. That is no big deal, I’ve done it before. I
actually even considered the Briggs. Not seriously, but I’m sure I could make it work. There are gas powered saw mills
everywhere. I’ve carried the image in my head for years, of a water powered mill being run off of a Model T. They had
disconnected the belt from the water wheel, and were driving everything off the back axle of the truck. They’d just
jack it up and pull a tire off, hook the belt up, and cut lumber all day, put the tire back on, and drive home. You are
only limited by your imagination and skill. I took it home and put the base together, No plans, but duh, it’ll only fit
together one way. Then I flipped the saw upside down, to clean the years worth of crap out of the inside. but It was almost
spotless. It looked like it had been cleaned with soap and water. The only thing in there was a couple of cobwebs. I went
to Harbor freight and bought a 2 horse 1725 rpm motor, ordered a pulley with a pitch diameter that would bring it up around
3 grand. I savvy shifting gears too. I dug through the scrap pile and found some likely looking pieces of angle iron and
sheet metal. With a good drill press, a welder, a cutting torch, and a couple of big hammers, you can do almost anything
with steel. I cut and drilled the pieces, and went to buy some bolts. I stopped at my thrift store and found out where
the motor was. This place usually gets two or three truckloads of stuff every day. They put what they can on the floor,
and pile the rest into one of the store rooms. One of the guys said he’d seen it way back in the pile but couldn’t remember
exactly where. They didn’t have time to dig it out, right then. I still figured the motor was burned up, so I finished the
bracket but waited to wire the new motor up. I went back the next day and dug it out myself. I found this vise in the pile
and made them throw it in because I had to sweat.

Fifteen minutes later, it was running. I had naturally assumed this saw had been used comercially, burned through at least
two motors, and they gave it away and bought a new one. For the money, I’m cool with that. However, the real story made more
sense. Some guy had retired and set up a woodshop in the garage. He bought a bad ass saw and died before he even got it
dirty. His widow was moving in with the kids, and she just donated his stuff to charity. Lucky me, huh?

I think it’s well worth the $50. How about you? My only real problem making room for it. I have to rebuild some cabinets, but I guess I’ll live.

-- I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you. I'm sorry,thanks.

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