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Forum topic by squid posted 890 days ago 1931 views 0 times favorited 14 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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squid

5 posts in 1434 days


890 days ago

I am in the market to upgrade my old Ryobi saw to a real tablesaw. Am considering a Grizzly 1023 or a 1.75 hp Sawstop. Do really need the 3hp or does the safety feature of the sawstop override the HP difference ?


14 replies so far

View syenefarmer's profile

syenefarmer

388 posts in 1686 days


#1 posted 890 days ago

IMO, the so called safety feature of the SawStop does not have anything to do with the difference in HP. Common sense should tell you that a more powerful motor will make easier work of sawing through wood than a lesser powerful one. Common sense also comes into play when using a table saw. If common sense is always put into play when using a table saw there should never be an instance when the safety feature of the SawStop would ever be needed. That, as I stated at the beginning, is just my opinion.

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3859 posts in 934 days


#2 posted 890 days ago

I’ve heard it said that regularly ripping 2” thick hardwood is a good rule of thumb for the tipping point at which you definately want a 3 HP saw.

Keep in mind that a “true” 3 HP saw will need to run on a 220 volt outlet.

Don’t even bother looking at ratings that say “peak” or “peak developed” HP….

What you really want to look at is motor amps….

if wired for 220 volts, expect about a 17 amp rated draw on the motor data plate for a single phase 3 HP motor, which can easilly be accomodated by normal 12 ga. wire circuits with 20 amp breakers.

If the motor name plate says 15 amps at 120 volts, you’re talking about a ~1.5 HP motor.

Peak developed HP is a cheater spec., where they use the inrush of current drawn by the starting coil on a single phase motor to calculate the HP…. This is a gargage spec., as by the time the motor spins up to it’s rated speed (usually 3,450 rpm or so for a table saw), the centrifugal switch has cut the starting coil out of the circuit and the motor is drawing a lot less amps.

I’ve got a shop vac with a 120 volt unniversal motor that says 3 HP on it’s big sticker. But it has a standard grounded 15 amp plug on it, which tells you that they are either smokin’ crack or lyin’ out the wazoo

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5374 posts in 1981 days


#3 posted 890 days ago

What the safety feature is worth is really a matter of opinion. Both of these saws will cut wood, but the SS contractor saw isn’t nearly as robust as the Griz 1023 cabinet saw. With good alignment and good blade selection, any decent full size contractor saw should cut to darn near full blade height without too much effort. A true 3hp cabinet saw will be much less sensitive to the variables. The biggest difference is really how the saws are built, ease of adjustment, mass, etc. The Griz is an industrial style cabinet saw more similar to the SS PCS.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3859 posts in 934 days


#4 posted 889 days ago

Ther’s a LOT more steel in that Grizzly cabinet saw than my contractor saw has, that’s for sure

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View HorizontalMike's profile

HorizontalMike

6915 posts in 1520 days


#5 posted 889 days ago

…Do really need the 3hp or does the safety feature…?”

YES.

Your world will change once you work with a 3hp TS or more. It’s kind of like wood sex, once you start you never want to quit… ;-)

-- HorizontalMike -- "Woodpeckers understand..."

View MedicKen's profile

MedicKen

1599 posts in 2068 days


#6 posted 889 days ago

I would lean toward the Grizz as well. The trunnion assembly is actually a copy of a well proven design, that of Herbert Tautz. he designed the Delta unisaw in 1939 and the design remained the same for decades. Here is a shot of my previously owned ‘68 uni and you will see the similarities. 3hp is in my opinion the minimum needed for ripping 8/4 hardwood.

-- My job is to give my kids things to discuss with their therapist....medic20447@gmail.com

View Viking's profile

Viking

857 posts in 1801 days


#7 posted 889 days ago

Squid;

We have both 1.5 HP contractor saw and 3 HP cabinet saw. Agree with H. Mike in that the 3HP will spoil you. The extra mass, noted by Knotscott, really damps the vibration you would feel in a contractor saw.

The Grizz 1023 is a great saw and good value also.

My only regret is not getting the longer fence rails to increase cutting capacity on right side of the blade, 52” vs. 26”. Your projects may not dictate that need but, certainly should be considered as part of your overall decision.

As is usually noted in posts like this, don’t discount seeing what might be available in used high end machines in your area on Craig’s List and similar. We have seen several LJ’s find excellent buys on used Unisaws, the standard for cabinet saws.

Good luck with whatever saw you choose.

-- Rick Gustafson - Lost Creek Ranch - Colorado County, Texas

View bigfoot62's profile

bigfoot62

17 posts in 910 days


#8 posted 889 days ago

I just purchesed a Grizzly G1023RLW cabinet table saw, I went from a Craftsman contractors saw and the difference is monumental!! I’ve been cutting oak at the full 3” height and the Griz doesn’t even slow down or start to dim the lights, it blasts right through!! Very happy with my choice. The value is very exceptional.

-- My best friend has always been my Labradore Retriever!

View Manitario's profile

Manitario

2268 posts in 1489 days


#9 posted 889 days ago

FYI the 1.75 hp SS is a cabinet saw, not a contractor saw. Others will disagree, but the fit/finish/quality of a Sawstop is a step above Grizzly. Take a read of some of the SS reviews on LJ’s, as well, Charles Neil has a great video review on Youtube of a Sawstop TS. As for 1.75hp vs. 3hp; my SS cabinet saw is 1.75hp; yes, on really thick cuts or very wide dados I need to feed slower than if I had a 3hp saw, however I would not trade it for a 3hp Grizzly.

-- Sometimes the creative process requires foul language. -- Charles Neil

View Mainiac Matt 's profile

Mainiac Matt

3859 posts in 934 days


#10 posted 889 days ago

If I understand correctly, the “technical” distinction between a bone fide cabinet saw and a contractor saw is that the trunion mechanism on a cabinet saw is massive and is mounted to cabinet frame, while the trunions on a contractor saw are much smaller and are mounted to the bottom of the saw table.

The new hybrid saws, if I understand correctly, have a cabinet with the motor mounted inside, but the trunions are still lighter and mounted to the table.

-- Pine is fine, but Oak's no joke!

View stevenmadden's profile

stevenmadden

174 posts in 1695 days


#11 posted 889 days ago

ssnvet: You are correct, by definition a true cabinet saw is one that has the trunion (regardless of it’s size) mounted to the cabinet, hence the name. When I first started out in woodworking, I assumed it was named that because they were used to make “cabinets”.

squid: I started out with a 1.75hp Jet hybrid, and upgraded to the 3.00hp SawStop industrial cabinet saw. In terms of power, there is a significant difference between the two, which the safety feature has nothing to do with. The main reason I went with SawStop over Delta and Powermatic was due to the added safety of the blade braking technology. As most woodworkers know, this is a highly controversial subject at the moment, but for me it was a no brainer. Happy shopping.

Steven

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5374 posts in 1981 days


#12 posted 889 days ago

I think one aspect that confuses the issue between saw types is that there really is no standard definition that clearly states what constitutes a contractor saw, hybrid saw, or cabinet saw. We all have ideas in mind that makes sense to us and may be shared by others, but AFAIK, there are no definitions generated by an authority or sanctioning body.

There are traditional contractor saws with table mounted trunnions and an outboard belt drive induction motor with an open splayed leg stand (think PM64a), and there are contractor saws with either cabinet mounted (Rikon or PCB270TS) or table mounted trunnions (R4512 and 21833) and an inboard belt drive induction motors with open splayed leg stands. There are hybrids with cabinet (22116) and table mounted (G0715P) trunnions, some of which have a full enclosure, while others have a partial enclosure (Jet Proshop 708482). It seems to be left to the manufacturers to state whether it’s a contractor saw, hybrid, or even cabinet saw. The lines are plenty blurred.

With that said, I was initially (and likely erroneously) thinking that the OP was talking about the 1-1/2hp SS contractor saw vs the 1-3/4hp SS PCS. Wonder if “squid” is even still with us here? Good discussion either way.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View buffalosean's profile

buffalosean

174 posts in 1993 days


#13 posted 889 days ago

squid,
If your going to be cutting a lot of 8/4 or any really hard exotic 4/4. you might want to think of using a 3hp motor. a bogged down blade in itself is a danger. THis is my experience with 1.5 motors. I’ve never used 1.75, but I don’t think it would be considerably more power.

I’ve seen motors bog down on 1.5 motors and then induce kick back. I would go with a larger motor, unless your cutting softer woods 4/4 and thinner.

-- There are many ways to skin a cat...... but, the butter knife is not recommended

View a1Jim's profile

a1Jim

112002 posts in 2183 days


#14 posted 889 days ago

Here’s a recent post about Saw Stop
The Hp is suppose to be more than enough for a hobby shop

http://lumberjocks.com/topics/35148

-- http://artisticwoodstudio.com Custom furniture

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