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Saw Stop Goes National well kind of or do we need a nanny state

3K views 35 replies 25 participants last post by  Viktor 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm against it…

If I want the protection, I will BUY it; if I don't, I won't. PERIOD

The guy is only out to make a few Billion$ by shoving it down our throats whether we want it or not.

NO…

Government STAY OUT OF IT!

Funny Video!
 
#4 ·
If you look at OSHA and how it works with safety, I am surprised that more companies haven't been forced into using Saw Stop or similar tech since it is considered a known danger. I don't know if standard guards are going to be, in the future, able to legal stand up against this. Here is Section 5 of OSHA's outline.

SEC. 5. Duties
(a) Each employer-

(1) shall furnish to each of his employees employment and a place of employment which are free from recognized hazards that are causing or are likely to cause death or serious physical harm to his employees;

(2) shall comply with occupational safety and health standards promulgated under this Act.
29 USC 654
(b) Each employee shall comply with occupational safety and health standards and all rules, regulations, and orders issued pursuant to this Act which are applicable to his own actions and conduct.
 
#5 · (Edited by Moderator)
Are you saying that OSHA is going to make me, a hobbyist, to conform to all of their Safety Regulations?

I don't think so.

To me, if the Commercial world wants to buy the more expensive saws, which may reduce their Insurance rates and Workmen's Comp costs, let them do it… They should NOT be forced to buy the new saws.
 
#8 ·
Why hasn't anyone complained about the fact that riving knives are now required on all new saws? Manufacturers had to redesign their saws and add components to make the knife rise and lower with the blade. This made all saws cost a couple bucks more than previous models (some saws may cost less due to cost savings in other areas).

If you are really upset that someone made you pay more for safety that you don't deem necessary, then why aren't you complaining about riving knives?

Bottom line is, the cost for safety needs to be balanced with the risks. Those who claim they don't want mandated safety based on principles have no leg to stand on. If you think sawstop tech is too expensive, then fine tell us what that price point needs to be. Just don't go off and claim it violates your principles when you're obviously only selectively applying them.

FYI, UL made it mandatory. A private company, who you have no influence over and could care less about what you have to say. At least in government you can vote.
 
#9 ·
Sarit, it is proven that riving knives prevent kickback. The Sawstop technology has nothing to do with preventing kickback.
The Sawstop technology is something that is not necessary for safety. If you pay attention, you wont put your hands in the blade.

What I'm trying to say is, wood bending into the back of the blade while cutting it is not the users fault. Running your hand through a blade due to inattention is the users fault.
 
#10 · (Edited by Moderator)
Everyone should be forced to buy a saw stop . Before you can renew your driver's licence , you should be
required to buy a saw stop. before you apply for a pass port you should be required to buy a saw stop
before you can re finance you home , you should be required to buy a saw stop. Before you can obtain
a marriage license you will have to purchase a saw stop . To extend unemployment benefits you must
buy a saw stop . If you are running for political office you will have to first purchase a saw stop .You must buy a saw stop before being admitted to a college , university , trade school ,cosmetology school , Burger U., .
You must buy a saw stop before being allowed to join the army ,air force ,marines ,navy , coastguard , national
guard, civilian militias . paint ball armies ,world of war craft , You must buy a saw stop before being allowed due process in divorce court ,small claims court , escrow ,bankruptcy court , and other courts such as basketball
courts tennis courts , handball courts ,high courts ,low courts , international courts, maritime courts, grass courts ,clay courts ,quartz courts ,muni courts ,mini courts , food courts , You must buy a saw stop before entering any type of Arena such as Hockey , generic sports arena , AKC dog shows , Ultimate fighting arenas , Death
match arenas , Kary O Key bars , marinas , parking garages , strip malls , strip culbs , club med , emergency rooms , panic rooms , rooms with a view , padded rooms ,utility rooms , bar rooms , rooms with mini bars , space needles , needle factories . You must first be required to buy a saw stop before being allowed to shop on Amazon.com , open an etsy store , bid on e-bay , buy a computer , submit free blogs , hold stocks and bonds , download ring tones , time share condos , do other people's taxes ,learn a foreign language , take quilting
classes , surf , jog , train helper dogs and monkeys , drive gasoline and explosive trucks on public roadways ,
qualify for insurance for snow mobiles , employ a nanny , vote in any election , join hair club , fight club ,weight watchers , desert of the month club , You must buy a saw stop if you work for the fed government
(postal workers excluded ). You should be required to buy a saw stop if you are employed as a dog groomer,
web designer , spelunker , junker , professional athlete , hair dresser or nail tech , yoga instructor , kindergarten teacher , fishing guide , astronaut , retail specialist , theme park and carnival workers ,
taxi drivers , baker , butcher , candle maker , children's books author , barber , nutritionist , IT tech ,
event planer , wedding planer , and divorce lawyer . All professional and hobbyist Woodworkes should be
required to purchase two saw stops , IMHO .

All persons that are employed by any government entity , employed in the health care industry ,
or employed in the educational system , or own or are employed by any private or public business
should be required to buy a saw stop .
 
#11 ·
I don't see a reason for this technology to be mandated for all saws. I think a private user/hobbyist should be able to decide whether it makes sense for them.

However, I AM for legislation which requires Sawstop-like technology on saws being used in schools or those furnished to employees by an employer. It obviously makes sense from a financial/insurance perspective for schools and businesses to use Sawstop, and I have no problem with that being formalized. Gass still gets his money, but the hobbyist doesn't have to feel like it's being shoved down his throat. This of course would have less to do with the CPSC and more to do with OSHA and other government bodies that regulate those environments.

Let the individual hobbyist choose.

Disclosure: I am a hobbyist, own a Sawstop, admire the technology, and don't hate Gass as much as some do.
 
#12 ·
Pee and moan all you want…. I got $25 off my Health insurance and $150 off my Home Owners insurance when I told my agent I own a Saw Stop.
 
#13 ·
I don't feel the issue is about safety as much as an entrepreneur using the government to strong arm competitors into purchasing a product that is patented. I don't resent Gass because he used his ingenuity to create a product that is unique and has great potential to save a woodworker's digits. My angst is that after the terms he presented to other saw makers was turned down, he is attempting to use legislation to enforce the purchase of his product. That does not seem like a fair business practice to me. I have known several individuals who hurt themselves on a saw. I, however, do not know any that hurt themselves with blade guards in place, hold downs being utilized, push sticks in hand, and splitters in use. All existing technology that has proven to work when used.

Gass testified in hearings over tablesaw accidents that his technology would have prevented the occurrence of a mishap. That may be true, if the technology is in use. The blade break can be turned off just like riving knives, blade guards, and splitters can be removed from a tablesaw. In the end, it still boils down to an individual deciding to use the safety features that are available. No amount of regulation will change that.

David
 
#15 ·
I don't like the way Gass has pushed this through govt channels either. That is what we don't like. WE all think it is a great device and some actually wish Powermatic or Unisaw had a similar device. But they don't and Gass has been a real turkey about the way he has crammed this down our throats. So with Obama Care on you policy why not a SawStop? No I don't like it either…neither of the above options. I have never been involved in a saw accident but I was with a guy in high school that did cut himself. He made a mistake. I didn't even know it was happening until it was over. I scared me spittless! Do I want my grandchildren in that position….??? No way. What we need more than anything else is a second or third company to offer a quality table saw with some kind of safety mechanism at a reasonable rate. A way to reset the devise without sending parts back to who knows where before we can use the tool again. '
I do wear seat belts. No they shouldn't tell me to wear them but I should be smart enough to do it on my own…they are offered by everyone and at a reasonable rate.
Now lets talk about anti-lock brakes. What do they do for you. NOTHING! they still cost you though…...
 
#16 ·
We need neither government nor manufacturing intervention. You have the skills and knowlege build your own to suit your needs.

Table Wood Rectangle Indoor games and sports Room


Copied from "Building Early American Furniture" by Joseph Daniele, Stackpole Books 1974

MIKE
 

Attachments

#17 · (Edited by Moderator)
The government doesn't force you to wear a seatbelt , they just fine you if you don't .

The government doesn't force you to wear clothes , but will detain you for observation

or charge you with public ludeness if you don't ,believe me I know. I told those officers on several occasions ,

that should be my decision , and they just laughed at me . I try to say something to the officers in my

defence such as :

1. " It's my birthday , and I am wearing a ' Suit ' "

2. " Have you seen the keys to my closet , cuz this aint workin for me "

3. " I don't want to get in a heated discussion with ya'll, until ya'll strip off those uniforms ! "

4. " Are you talking to me ? I know you ain't talking to me tough guys ."

5. " Those tweekers robbed me , and even took all my clothes , you know how they be ."

6. "I'm going to the Saw Stop Convention to see the weeny test , and I'm in a hurry ."

7. " Don't taze me Bro !!!! ...especially not there !!!!
 
#18 ·
8. " My clothes ?? I gave them to a homeless person , I'm just that caring , officer "

9. " But I don't have to carry identification , I have a unique birth mark on my butt ,
everyone in the neighborhood knows me by that.

10. " Really , I hadn't noticed . Let me just run home and put some on ."

11 " Quit chasing me ! seriously , dude.....stop chasing me ! "
 
#19 ·

"Pee and moan all you want…. I got $25 off my Health insurance and $150 off my Home Owners insurance when I told my agent I own a Saw Stop."



Great!

The point being… it was Your Choice…

Maybe one cannot afford to buy a fancy Saw Stop saw… now what?

Many people have been using saws for years very safely and without losing their fingers or getting cut…
 
#22 ·
My old Jet saw has no riveting knife but it has a guard that stays on unless the operation says no guard. like cutting cove molding or doing dado's or rebates with the stacked dado head cutter. i like the cut more than a router so there you go. I use the safety equipment because i choose to. i have been in the er when multiple digit amputations come in and are life flighted to San Francisco for micro surgery to restore the digit to working order. I have been on the life flight and taken care of my patient .i have even been in the observation room and watched the long a dreadful surgery .I have to tell you reattachment is a miracle and one that doesn't always work. in my case i am a diabetic and i cant risk the cut it likely wont heal well due to my diabetes.

I posted this because this is the reaction i knew it would get when gass is trying to force this technology with one hand and fighting the whirlwind stop with the other does gass really care or is he a money hungry ass who only cares about getting rich.

America has spoken already current sales say 5 saw stops saws are sold to every 1 saw from the big manufactures. In the past week I have spoke to Delta and Powermatic Jet and grizzly they all feel the pinch that this has already caused. most woodworkers are not buying entry level saws they are buying expensive and expensive to stop saw stops. no what about the little job site saws they are the saws where the most accidents happen and yet no safety devise is offered for them at all ,save the Whirlwind black box that will work on any tool router band saw table saw etc and Gass is trying to kill the Whirlwind Project. how lame and greedy is that. the beauty of the whirlwind is it can be added to any table saw band saw or router or router table and it is cheaper than the saw stop. , In my conversation to the big Manufactures they all said they will have saws that are to the safety standard of the saw stop with in the next 2 years. I think Ill hold out for a nice powermatic Jet or Uni saw from delta and will see if the new saw will have to destroy the cartridge and my nice Forrest blade or hell even a 40 dollar dewalt blade for that matter .
 
#24 ·
I don't think that it should be required by law, but I would like to see this type of technology out there from other manufacturers. Saw stop is cool, but it is expensive every time it is triggered. I heard that Bosch was working on a technology that dropped the blade below the table, but didn't destroy the blade. I think I would prefer that since most of my blade cost over $100 alone. If this legislation does happen to go through I hope they strip Saw Stop of their patent rights so that any company can use it or give them the freedom to create their own technology. If Saw Stop profits from this legislation by forcing companies to use and pay for their technology, I think there will be a huge backlash out there against Saw Stop.
 
#25 ·

"If Saw Stop profits from this legislation by forcing companies to use and pay for their technology"


That is his goal… That's exactly what he wants to do!

That is one of the reasons I'm against having a Law to force it on us.

Stripping his patents, etc. would NOT be in his plan & would probably fight it.
 
#26 ·
You do realize that when Colbert says one thing he's really making fun of the people who agree with him. His schtick is to mimmick a right wing Fox news person to the point of being ridiculous and looking like a total fool to the rest of mankind. Don't feel bad, Bush thought he was a true Conservative too.
 
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