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Forum topic by Pop posted 945 days ago 9753 views 1 time favorited 38 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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Pop

419 posts in 2580 days


945 days ago

I’m designing a dust collection system. Here’s my question: I am going to use 4 inch plastic pipe. I find that there are 2 types available. There’s “DVW” & there’s “S&D”. S&D pipe is lighter with a thinner wall than DVW. It also cost less. (About half) Is one type better than another? Does it make any difference? I would prefer to use the lighter pipe just to make installation easier.

Can someone with experience on this give me advice?

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist


38 replies so far

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2030 days


#1 posted 945 days ago

Either will work but be sure to install a grounding system for it. PVC will build up a wicked static charge. I use the metal snap lock duct in mine.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View SASmith               's profile

SASmith

1576 posts in 1621 days


#2 posted 945 days ago

I use 4” S&D pvc to get as close as I can to my machines. Then I use this to make the final hook up. It fits 4” S&D perfectly. I also make my own blast gates using the 4”S&D.

-- Scott Smith, Southern Illinois

View BobM001's profile

BobM001

388 posts in 964 days


#3 posted 945 days ago

Hi Pop,

DWV is “Drain Waste and Vent. S&D is “Sanitary and Drainage”. The lighter is what I believe they call “foam core”. Have you explored that the cost of 5ft sections of 30 gauge 4” metal pipe is? Remember, ALL plastic pipe intalls need to have a bare ground wire pulled through them. Or it is HIGHLY SUGGESTED. Metal doesn’t but has to be ground connected at some point. But consider this as well. I just got quotes for metal vs PVC.

I got these prices from a local plumbing and heating supply company I do business with. Go there instead of a big box DIY store. I’ll bet the prices will be lower. Get quotes for materials.

4” X 10’ foam core PVC $16.61
4” PVC 90 $8.49
4” 26 ga 5’ $10.65
4” 26 ga adj 90 $3.25
4” 30 ga 5’ $6.54
4” 30 ga adj 90 $2.07

The pipe for PVC may cost less, but the fittings are what kill you. I don’t know if 30 gauge pipe will collapse under a vacuum with all the blast gates closed. It might. I doubt that 26 gauge will. Especially 4”. Plus with metal 90’s you can adjust the angles to whatever you need. Once you get it all installed seal the “gores” with silicone and tape the pipe joints. Plus metal will be lighter than the PVC for install.

The only variable I didn’t reasearch is metal blast gates vs PVC. I bet the don’t give those away either.

Bob

-- OK, who's the wise guy that shrunk the plywood?

View SASmith               's profile

SASmith

1576 posts in 1621 days


#4 posted 945 days ago

4 inch pvc S&D 10' at menards $6.49

4 inch 90 degree sewer elbow $2.38

Lowes price on the the pipe is similar but the fittings are cheaper at menards.

-- Scott Smith, Southern Illinois

View Les 's profile

Les

199 posts in 1324 days


#5 posted 945 days ago

I don’t use anything but the light duty stuff, not sure what it is called. I just went out to the shop and looked and all I could fine is sewer pipe listed on the sections. If you have a problem with static build up in any lines just run a small bare wire through the pipe and ground it to your green wire in any panel or plug. That will take care of it.

Just slip fit the fittings together and run a self tapping screw into them to hold them together. That way you can change as required. The blast gates fit the pipe great.

Les

-- Stay busy....Stay young

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2030 days


#6 posted 944 days ago

I use the snap lock ducting that you can get at lowes. I use 6 inch through out and reduce it at the machine. The pvc works very well to but I had trouble findings fittings that would make up on my equipment most of which is 5”. With metal ducting i didn’t have any problems at all.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Pop's profile

Pop

419 posts in 2580 days


#7 posted 944 days ago

Thanks Guys,

You told me what I needed to know.

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist

View Tomj's profile

Tomj

204 posts in 1015 days


#8 posted 944 days ago

One thing I want to add is most 4” abs blast gates fit the green S and D astm 3034 pipe with a snug fit. I looked at all the prices comparing sewer and drain PVC and 26 gauge metal duct, in the end it would me cost me about $ 800 dollars to go all out with what I want to do compared to $600 with PVC. In the beginning I was going to go with PVC then I looked at metal duct prices and at first glance seemed not to cost much more and I wouldn’t have to glue everything but in the end I realized if I was careful and planned out my system right with the right PVC I wouldn’t have to glue it. I want to be able disable this stuff and use it again down the line if I paid $600 overall for it and yes I will ground the system so I don’t get shocked. I guess I added a couple of things.

View Pop's profile

Pop

419 posts in 2580 days


#9 posted 944 days ago

Thanks guys, I’m going to use the light S&D pipe and fittings. The static thing is a great debate. According to most of the great writers of books the inside wire does nothing. The ideas include wire inside, outside and any other place you can run a wire to brass screw in the pipe wall at 6 inch to 1 foot intervals The other end of the spectrum is the gentleman from MIT who wrote an article in FINE WOODWORKING with the help of a professor with a PHD in static electricity. They both stated that there was no way in heck a small PVC pipe in a home woodshop was going do do anything but collect dust. After a few detractors told him he was nuts he wrote a 2 or 3 page document with great amounts of math to nail the lid on the subject. Most science folks agree with their conclusion. Your guess is as good as mind.

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist

View Scot's profile

Scot

344 posts in 2030 days


#10 posted 944 days ago

He can do all the math he wants, I’ve been zapped enough times to know that static does build up. Now there has been an argument back and forth as to whether or not that the charge can build up enough to cause a fire or explosion like in a grain elevator. I personally don’t think so based on the fact that I have never heard of it happening, and the fact that the ones making the argument that it could happen had never heard of it actually happening. There really is a difference between theory and reality.

-- If the old masters had power tools, they would have used them. So get off your damn High Horse.

View Les 's profile

Les

199 posts in 1324 days


#11 posted 944 days ago

POP

Scot is right, I have a 26” drum woodmaster sander with a 1500 cfm dust collector. I have 4” pipe ran all the way to the sander. Before I added the wire it would stand your hair on end if you got close. I have a roll of #14 stranded bare wire that I grounded to the sander, ran inside the pipe until it got to the main run, drilled a small hole and brought the bare wire out of the pipe and grounded it to the green lug inside a wall plug. Problem solved! I have since added wire to my planner run and am getting ready to add to the TS run. I would be glad share pictures if you would like.

If they tell it won’t work, OK but I just know what works for me.

Good call on the thin pvc pipe. It stretches the hell out of the budget.

If you look at my shop pictures you can see the sander line going up out of the unit.

Les

-- Stay busy....Stay young

View Pop's profile

Pop

419 posts in 2580 days


#12 posted 944 days ago

Guys, The guy didn’t say there was no static, just not enough to blow the place up or start a fire. There is a difference between a 4 inch shop pipe and a gazillion ton grain elevator.

About the static and the wire inside the pipe. From what I’v found out about this subject over many years is that the problem was eliminated when you nailed the machine to the dust collector. The wire could have been inside the pipe, outside the pipe or hanging from the rafters. It’s grounding those 2 things that discharged the static. Yes, Grounding machines to the DC is a good idea and makes for a more pleasant woodshop. Now, if you’re going to ground the machines to the DC the most logical way is run the ground wire with the DC pipe. While you’re at it, might as well loop it around the pipe or run it inside and err on the side of caution.

Pop

-- One who works with his hands is a laborer, his hands & head A craftsman, his hands, head & heart a artist

View woodymays's profile

woodymays

106 posts in 1906 days


#13 posted 917 days ago

I used sachedule 20 pvc pipe 4” diameter and it work out well. There are fittings that work with the schedule 20. Also, you don’t have to glue the sections together either. The sections fit together at close tolerance and you can used the metal worm screw clamps.

-- Behind every great man is his wife with rolling eyes.

View buffalosean's profile

buffalosean

174 posts in 2021 days


#14 posted 917 days ago

that article, the author states that is is unlikely, and every time he mentions the likelyhood it used terms like “probably” and “unlikely”. That is WAY different than saying ‘It Could Never Happen”.

Dust can ignite. The author says “any such sparks are UNLIKEY to be strong enough to cause ignition.” Just because he thinks there can’t be an issue, does not make it a new law of physics. Someone who went to MIT is well educated, that does not mean the individual is smart, cognizant of true reality or has any street smarts.

-- There are many ways to skin a cat...... but, the butter knife is not recommended

View Grandpa's profile

Grandpa

3100 posts in 1309 days


#15 posted 917 days ago

What I have read about grounding says there has never been a documented case of static causing an explosion in a home workshop. Secondly you cannot ground an insulator so grounding the machine is what we are doing. More precisely I think we are bonding the machines to each other. That is probably the correct terminology. If the plastic and static were a problem then Clear Vue Cyclone collectors would be out of business. I think the REAL problem is the static knock the fire out of people when they get near it. That doesn’t feel good even on a good day….right.
I did read one paper on the subject where the guy thought the best way to take care of this problem was to wrap the pipe in sheets of foil wrap much like we use for cooking. I thought of the industrial or commercial grade since it is about twice the thickness of the other. I wondered if some spray contact cement would work. I don’t know but it would be an interesting thing to try.

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