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Forum topic by jordanusmc posted 01-11-2012 05:29 AM 1460 views 0 times favorited 15 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


01-11-2012 05:29 AM

Topic tags/keywords: craigslist cl table saw

I have been debating about buying the Porter Cable Model #: PCB270TS from Lowes, but through some CL surfing I found a Rigid and Powermatic artisans model 64. My question is should I go with the Powermatic in that it is the same price as a new Porter Cable. I have heard great things about Powermatic. The Powermatic has also had fairly good reviews both on LJ’s and on Lowes. My other question is what kind of real red flags should I look for when viewing the Powermatic. I guess my main fear of buying the Powermatic is any sort of regrets, or problems I may encounter with it once I get it home. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Powermatic Cl listing:
http://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/2793722226.html


15 replies so far

View cabmaker's profile

cabmaker

1311 posts in 1463 days


#1 posted 01-11-2012 05:38 AM

The 64 is a much better deal at that price than the new pc would be. But he may be a bit high on the 64. I had a 64 for a short while as a job saw and it did its job. Think of it like this: You would be paying four hundred for the fence and getting the saw for 100.00. Probably 1 1/2 hp baldor too.

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5455 posts in 2030 days


#2 posted 01-11-2012 05:48 AM

The Powermatic name tends to enjoy a Cadillac type status. It’s well deserved for marquis products like venerable PM66, but it’s worth noting that the PM64a is really just another good Taiwanese made contractor saw with a good fence, gold paint, and the PM logo…the actual saw is very similar to the former Jet, former GI 50-185, former Grizzly G0576, former Bridgwood, etc. All still retain all the drawbacks of that style of saw with an outboard motor, connecting rods as an arbor carriage, long belt, no riving knife, etc. All are very capable once aligned well and fitted with a good blade.

With that said, I do think $500 is a reasonable buy for PM64a with a Biese style fence in good condition, but it can’t hurt to offer a little less, noting the grated CI wings. It’s worth close to that price in today’s market so there’s no much downside if you change your mind. Good luck and keep us posted.

PS: I concur with cabinet maker on the PCB270TS. it’s got a plastic elevation gear that I’d want nothing to do with. The fence is fairly lame too IMO.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


#3 posted 01-11-2012 05:53 AM

Thanks for the advice now that you mention it there is no riving knife on the saw. Can I install one or is it not possible with this model? Also if the saw is a few years old would that be better in the fact that it may not have been made in Taiwan and thus a better saw?

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knotscott

5455 posts in 2030 days


#4 posted 01-11-2012 05:58 AM

The Biese fence is made in the US, but I’m pretty sure the PM64 has always been made in Taiwan, but I could be wrong….it should say on the saw somewhere. There is an aftermarket device called the “BORK” that should fit that saw.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


#5 posted 01-11-2012 03:09 PM

Update:
I just received a email from the seller and he stated he is the original owner, and has owned it for over ten years. Is ten years a long time for this saw?

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knotscott

5455 posts in 2030 days


#6 posted 01-11-2012 05:24 PM

Time isn’t a big issue…usage and maintenance are. Heavy usage can be a problem if not maintained, but can also mean very little if it was cared for.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

View Hermando's profile

Hermando

75 posts in 1452 days


#7 posted 01-11-2012 06:52 PM

Recently I was in the same situation and had been looking at buying a new TS to upgrade from the portables I have been using. Although I have the Makita and Dewalt portables, great units, but the struggle has always been the accuracy. So I was also looking at PC, Ridgid and Craftsman, Although Lowes sells Steel City now. In any case the new saw would be in the $600 – $800 range, Unless I found it on sale.

My first choice though would have been the Powermatic used, but they hold their value and are not cheap. I took a chance on a used craftsman contractor from CL. At $40 what did I have to lose and after some cleaning and tuneup its a real jewel. If going used I would never spend to much for there is always a better deal just around the corner. If going new get the model you really want, even if you have to save a little longer and continue with how you are getting by for now.

Here is a recent CL Post for a Powermatic that I would jump on had I not bought the Craftsman.
Denver Colorado area.. http://denver.craigslist.org/tls/2792035956.html

View dmorrison's profile

dmorrison

145 posts in 1916 days


#8 posted 01-11-2012 07:36 PM

I have doubts about the Craiglist saw being a Powermatic model 64A.
I know the plate says it is but to many red flags in the post.
1. Open grate wings these were on the model 63 ( which I own)
2. Right tilt saw. The model 64 is a LEFT tilt saw. So I would not trust this post.

Do a search for parts for a model 64. You’ll see that this model does not reflect the model 64 offered by powermatic.
Biesemeyer fence is a good one. I just bought a 42” Biesemeyer the day ofter Christmas for $125. Still in the box.
My Vega fence on my saw, Which is a great fence is now going to my Father-in-laws Sears table saw.

1. Get a table saw with a Riving knife. For safety
2. Used is OK but Consider the Home Depot saw new, which comes with a riving knife.

I looked at the Porter Cable for my father-in-law and thought it was junk.

If you can do it. consider the Grizzly Hybrid model G0715P. Its a very good saw for a beginner and depending on how you advance in your woodworking, you may never need to buy another saw.

My Powermatic 63A has been a fine saw. But Powermatic is no longer supporting it and I would like a left tilt and a riving knife as a minimum. The Sawstop is a consideration.

On my Powermatic 63A saw I did a complete alignment. I had to remove the trunnios and drill out the holes to allow complete alignment

Dave

View Loren's profile

Loren

7556 posts in 2302 days


#9 posted 01-11-2012 07:42 PM

I hate to bash on Porter Cable, but the brand’s good name
is being gutted and it is being made a diy-level brand. The P-C
stuff made today, except perhaps for the routers, is not the
same stuff they used to make.

Basically today’s P-C is Black and Decker. Dewalt is B&D’s pro
brand. P-C has been sold down the river. Buyer beware.

###

The Powermatic Artisan line is an imported line of mostly Taiwan-made
machines meant to compete with Jet and similar better import
brands. It is not the same grade of machinery that built the
Powermatic name.

That said, don’t be afraid of used machines. Unless the machine is
really cheaply made (which is obvious) or has seen industrial use
or been dropped off a truck, it will probably work fine for years
and years. Most light industrial woodworking machinery sold
on the used market has seen little to no use by the standards
it is built to. When you buy from a hobby woodworker who
bought new, chances are the tool had no abuse or even more
than a few hundred hours on the motor.

-- http://lawoodworking.com

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1347 days


#10 posted 01-11-2012 07:46 PM

I’ve got to agree with Dave. This saw is a dead ringer for my old JET contractor, down to the bolt pattern. I wouldn’t waste a dollar on the PC saw, no offense meant. How much is the Rigid selling for; I know several people that are happy with theirs. $500 should go a long way on CL for a vintage saw. I think you can do much better than both of these.

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

View jordanusmc's profile

jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


#11 posted 01-11-2012 07:52 PM

dmorrison:
How can you tell it is a right tilt saw from the picture is it the difference in the zero clearance insert? I assume that a right tilt saw has more material of the zero clearance insert on the left and visa versa. I see the open grate wings that you are referring to now. I think you may have saved me from making a mistake here. While we are on the conversation what is the advantage of a left or right tilt is there one?

View knotscott's profile

knotscott

5455 posts in 2030 days


#12 posted 01-11-2012 08:05 PM

You can tell it’s right tilt by the direction of the front slot for the elevation wheel….the space is all to the left of the handwheel with the blade at 90°. Good observation by Dave.

Right tilt/left tilt is really a matter of preference, but there are pros and cons to each. I’ve owned both and perfer left tilt, but it wouldn’t be a deal breaker for me on a great deal on a great saw.

Left tilt is thought to be safer because the blade tilts away from the fence on a beveled rip cut….but those with right tilt saws can move the fence to the other side of the blade and accomplish the same “safer” situation, although they’re now peforming a less standard operation, which inherently isn’t quite as safe as a standard operation on the left tilt. Right tilt saws have the arbor flange on the right side, so the thickness of the blade or blades in the case of a dado stack don’t change the zero reference point on the measuing tape. Blade thickness definetely skews the zero reference on a left tilt saws because the flange is on the left so the blade registers from that point. There are a couple of easy fixes for that….use all the same thickness blades, measure manually with a measuring tape, adjust the cursor hair, or use a dado shim to compensate for the difference in thicknesses between blades. You’ll need to measure by hand with a dado stack using a left tilt saw…no way around it. Also, on a left tilt saw the arbor nut goes on from the right hand side and has threads with normal orientation….good for right handers. A right tilt saw’s arbor nut goes on from the left side and has reverse thread orientation, which I personally find to be a PITA when changing blades.

-- Happiness is like wetting your pants...everyone can see it, but only you can feel the warmth....

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jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


#13 posted 01-11-2012 08:08 PM

Bertha:
The Rigid is going for 350 with light rust on the table top. I just think for a another hundred bucks or two i could buy a brand new one with out the worries of rust and such. I wouldn’t really expect any rust on the saw in my area (Dallas) if it was maintained and taken care of.

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jordanusmc

42 posts in 1067 days


#14 posted 01-11-2012 08:09 PM

Thanks Knotscott

You guys have some good advice I was tempted to run out and buy this saw yesterday good think I didn’t.

View Bertha's profile

Bertha

12951 posts in 1347 days


#15 posted 01-11-2012 08:21 PM

Jordan, the new one might be a consideration. I think it’s more saw than the PC. I think NBeener has one/used to have one; he’d be an honest guy to ask about it. Good luck!

-- My dad and I built a 65 chev pick up.I killed trannys in that thing for some reason-Hog

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