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Forum topic by lizardhead posted 01-07-2012 05:53 PM 3016 views 0 times favorited 59 replies Add to Favorites Watch
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652 posts in 2865 days

01-07-2012 05:53 PM

I just gotta blow off some steam somewhere, This looks like a good spot.
Now I don’t want to sound like a complaining type, I’m not, but there is a guy that is posting work under the pretense that he is responsible for the creation & execution of the projects he is posting, when in fact someone else was the creator and a lot of other people around him did the work. If you own a restoration company and are paying employees to restore a piece for you, I don’t care to see it, I am not saying it is not worth looking at, I am saying that LJ’s is not a place for plagiarism.
While I’m at it I don’t like folks pretending that they created some very artistic piece with detailed carvings in it when it was a C n C machined piece, if you machined it—SAY SO—and stop pretending you are a master.
There now I feel better

-- Good, Better, Best--Never let it rest---Always make your Good be Better & your Better Best

59 replies so far

View Smitty_Cabinetshop's profile


15368 posts in 2642 days

#1 posted 01-07-2012 05:55 PM


-- Don't anthropomorphize your handplanes. They hate it when you do that. -- OldTools Archive --

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143 posts in 2948 days

#2 posted 01-07-2012 06:08 PM


View Chipy's profile


374 posts in 2617 days

#3 posted 01-07-2012 06:15 PM

You bring up an interesting point…..Were is the line drawn as far as what is considered your own work when using a CNC router.It is similar to question in music when using drum machines as apposed to using acoustic drums to create beats by your own hand.IMHO I agree with your frustration if you create a piece with CNC router you should not infer in any way that it has been hand carved. Not say that it can’t be creative using a CNC router were you have solely drawn out the design by hand.

View bhack's profile


349 posts in 3744 days

#4 posted 01-07-2012 06:34 PM

I agree, sir. I have seen projects posted that are from plans in magazines , etc. without stating so. I hope it is an oversight of the poster. I just think give credit where credit is due. I do think the majority of posts are honest and the proper credit is given. Also ditto Chipy’s remark.

-- Bill - If I knew GRANDKIDS were so much fun I would have had them first.

View bent's profile


311 posts in 3692 days

#5 posted 01-07-2012 06:39 PM

i own a compucarve machine, and i totally agree with you. i’ve used it to add decoration to a few pieces i’ve built. i don’t pretend that it’s my handiwork, and don’t present myself as carver in any sense. there is a member on this site that uses the same machine (i can tell because he uses the same stock designs). he presents it as his own work, and it bothers me. i think it’s dishonest.

View Gregn's profile


1642 posts in 3007 days

#6 posted 01-07-2012 06:59 PM

I have to agree that if you pay for work done that you shouldn’t claim it as your own work.

As for woodworkers using CNC and Cravewright type machines its their form of woodworking and IMHO is not any different than using a lathe duplicator in making duplicate parts.

I see woodworkers as 3 types of woodworkers, power tool woodworkers, hand tool woodworkers and combination tool woodworkers. Each choosing their own style of woodworking.

While I may not appreciate some forms of woodworking. I do feel that every woodworker should own their woodworking for what it is, good, bad or indifferent. From beginner to professional its what gets us in the shop to do some form of woodworking.

-- I don't make mistakes, I have great learning lessons, Greg

View Don's profile


6 posts in 2355 days

#7 posted 01-07-2012 07:41 PM

You know the fact that people are willing to get of the couch and create something says a lot! If someone builds a project fro hand tools, power tolls are what ever, who cares. It is all about what you are in to. I use both and am just as proud of the finished product. Those of you that have to criticize others for not agreeing with you and your way have problems much deeper than I care to go into. Get a life, if you have a hobby and are told you are one of the best enjoy it but let others have fun at what ever they choose. As for the guys that say they created something and have paid employees doing the work, How many Lane cedar chest do you think were built by the same person, so who gets the credit, Lane! The others get paid and feed the family!

-- Spader, Grapevine.

View poopiekat's profile


4356 posts in 3758 days

#8 posted 01-07-2012 07:54 PM

Agreed, Lizardhead! Though there is a gray area regarding so-called ‘repurposing’ projects using pre-existing components manufactured by others, and even restoration projects, they should be somehow identified separately and segregated from truly hand-built projects. Any items prefabricated, like carved or turned legs for example, should be mentioned in the original project description. What really drives me crazy are the built-in china closets, kitchen island cabinets, and custom doors and windows, etc, that CLEARLY belong in the “Home Refurbers” project pages below, not here in Lumberjocks. That site could sure use a little more traffic!

-- Einstein: "The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift." I'm Poopiekat!!

View Loren's profile


10476 posts in 3671 days

#9 posted 01-07-2012 08:00 PM

I recommend you take it up with the individual posting the work.

The issue as I understand it is that the individual seems to be claiming
authorship of all these pieces when in fact they come out of a larger
millwork shop he works in and/or owns?

Deception by omission is still deception. Saying “I did the design drawings
and sold the job and 3 of my employees executed the lion’s share of the
work” would be more honest and more educational to readers as well,
since a statement acknowledges the collaborative nature of running
a shop that does more work than 1 person can handle.

View Don's profile


6 posts in 2355 days

#10 posted 01-07-2012 08:14 PM

So bottom line, you feel that everyone should take time to include the build method when showing off a project. I am ok with that. If we are going to enjoy viewing a project, we do want to know how you accomplished certain task unless we know it all. I think it is ok to just say this project was built with a combination of hand and power tools but thought you may enjoy the design and finish. Bottom line, I see you have been here for a while and hope to learn from you and the others that truly have a pashion for building things with there hands.

-- Spader, Grapevine.

View Don's profile


6 posts in 2355 days

#11 posted 01-07-2012 08:17 PM

WOW, my bad, no=w I see who Lizardhead is! I stand corected.

-- Spader, Grapevine.

View randomray's profile


111 posts in 3047 days

#12 posted 01-08-2012 01:43 AM

As someone who does traditional wood working I agree with you There is a huge difference between CNC carving and traditional carving . I don’t have any problem with using any power tool just say so . It’s just a matter of different skills not a lack of skill . Honestly though the CNC machine could just as easily make the same part out of plastic or metal and the design could be bought from a third party .

-- Anybody can break something it takes skill to make or repair stuff .

View lizardhead's profile


652 posts in 2865 days

#13 posted 01-08-2012 02:17 AM

Most of you get my point—For those who missed it—I don’t like thief’s nor do I care for folks who claim to have done something they clearly had not—-If you want to post something that you bought and changed, say so or people will assume you are some kind of master craftsman when your not. Don’t piss on me and tell me it’s raining

-- Good, Better, Best--Never let it rest---Always make your Good be Better & your Better Best

View doncutlip's profile


2832 posts in 3579 days

#14 posted 01-08-2012 02:20 AM

You find these kinds of people in all walks of life. My thought is it’s like when you see a snake in the woods – don’t poke it, JUST WALK AWAY FROM IT

-- Don, Royersford, PA

View lizardhead's profile


652 posts in 2865 days

#15 posted 01-08-2012 02:25 AM

Don: Sorry I just have to poke it. Maybe it’s wounded and needs help. Maybe lost and needs direction. But most likely has self esteem problems and needs reassurance.

-- Good, Better, Best--Never let it rest---Always make your Good be Better & your Better Best

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